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    Questions on Ademco Vista 50P support

    I've seen other posts on the Ademco series, but did not see any specific instructions on how to enable this support, nor on what features / functions were specifically supported in what people were doing. So, I have several questions here.

    First, let me say that my background is in software engineering, so if I have to write code to support this, I am open to do this (and available over the next week).

    The features / functions that I would like to enable are the following:
    1) receive typical Event Log information (system, alarm, open/close, etc...)
    2) receive events when zones are opened / closed (e.g. doors, windows)
    3) ability to arm and disarm the system and the ability to bypass zones

    I have the Ademco Vista 50P and the 4100SM serial interface card at this point.

    So, now on to my questions:

    1) With just the 4100SM, can I get this functionality?

    I have only found the ability to get feature #1 from above with the serial interface on the 50P so far. I have it installed in the Event Log configuration and not in the Direct Download configuration.

    If the 4100SM will do everything that I want, does anyone have the serial protocol spec that is used so I can program to it?

    2) Does anyone know if the Vista ICM has programmatic interfaces available?

    I know it is addressable over IP, but does anyone know if there are APIs that it supports to remotely control the ICM? Or, is there a list of the email alerts that you can get it to send out?

    3) Any thoughts on using a phone line simulator of some type to simulate having the phone line always open for remote control. Would this work?

    4) Has anyone gotten all the functionality I mention above from the higher end Vista products?

    I'm open to upgrading my panel to get this support, but will not replace all the zones in the whole house with another alarm system as I have way too many zones to do that.

    Thanks for any help in this area.

    Chris
    Last edited by ChrisDunn; December 22, 2007, 07:29 PM.

    #2
    Following up

    In case anyone else out there is interested, I've found some additional information.

    If turns out that with the Vista 50P and the 4100SM, you are only able to get Event Logging or to go into a mode where you lock out the keypads but have access to all functionality that I was looking for...so a non-starter there.

    However, I was able to find two alternatives that will work in regards to giving the functionality I need. The first option is to go up to a Vista 128 model or higher (or the Apex Destiny 6100 which is compatible with the existing zones). The second option is to go with the new Vista ICM, that will work with any Vista model (including the 10, 20 and 40 models). I suppose option three is to get a whole new panel and start from scratch.

    More info on the first option of a Vista 128 or higher with the 4100SM serial interface. (There are other threads talking about this, but I will reiterate some of it here.) With this option, it looks like you have all events available to you (arm/disarm, zones, output controls, etc...) and you have the ability to arm/disarm, trigger output controls, query the system, etc... I believe if you arm it while a zone is open that it will perform the "force-arm" function and bypass it...so you can bypass in this way. The protocol (for the supported features) is almost exactly like the Apex Destiny 6100 protocol which is publicly available.

    In the second option, using the Vista ICM, it is hardwired into the system as if it was a keypad and it uses the Ademco ECP bus to get it's information. It then allows access over the IP network using a web browser and standard HTTP protocols. It acts like a real hardwired keypad with one exception, it can only reside in one partition, which means you can't use it for programming the control panel. It does appear however, to get all the same events that a normal keypad will get, such as zones opening and closing, bypass events, arming events, etc... And, it appears to allow any other keypad actions such as bypassing zones.

    It would appear that either solution is viable, although I'm going with option #2 as it is more cost effective. Now, the only problem is that there is no plugin for HomeSeer for a Vista panel using the ICM. Guess it's time for me to dig out my rusty coding ability and see what kind of damage I do.

    If anyone is interested in the plug-in I'll be working on, or wants more information on the above, feel free to ping me.

    Many thanks to Sherman at http://www.aesecurity.com for his help in working through some of this. He earned my business multiple times over.

    Thanks,
    Chris

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Chris,

      I'm not sure about the Vista 50P, but with the more advanced Ademco panels such as the Vista 128BP and Vista 250BP, the three "features/functions" you listed are all possible via the 4100SM serial interface. (I think the serial protocol/commands are unique to the panel though and not the 4100SM, so I don't know what protocol/commands are supported by the 50P). Have you tried to contact Ademco / Honeywell about the 50P automation capabilities?

      Don

      Comment


        #4
        Prior attempts by others into Ademco were not successful, as Ademco (now Honeywell) is not interested in working with DIYers. I was able to get enough information from other sources however, to know that the serial protocol for the functions that I'm looking for are not supported in the 50p.

        The prices to go up to the higher Vista products were in the $350 range or higher (can't remember), whereas the ICM was about $250, so I chose to go that path.

        I've actually already started writing a plug-in for HomeSeer, just running into a minor stumbling block (haven't really coded since '99). The plug-in currently is recognized and initialized inside of HomeSeer with no problems, so hopefully I'll have something working within a few weeks (or months :-D).

        Chris

        Comment


          #5
          Good luck with the plug-in. If you have HS programming questions, you'll find many users/developers on this board more than willing to help.

          Don

          Comment


            #6
            ChrisDunn,

            I have an Ademco Vista 20P alarm system installed and wish I could have it talk to HS. I'm hoping your plug-in efforts are going well. I'm going to buy the Vista-ICM when a HS plug-in is available. So I wish you luck and if you need a Beta tester let me know.

            Comment


              #7
              i have a vista 20SE, will the vista-icm work with that as well?

              i am very interested in having web access to the panel. right now, i only have 7 X10 output devices connected to HS
              Mark

              HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
              Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
              Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
              Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by mnsandler
                I have a vista 20SE, will the vista-icm work with that as well
                Looking at the Vista ICM Data sheet that I have attached it looks like it will work.

                You may also want to read more at Honeywell's Website:

                http://www.security.honeywell.com/hs.../ad/92285.html

                I have been waiting for the Vista ICM price to come down and after looking on e-bay the ICM is looking more affordable.

                I have the Vista ICM install and users manual in PDF; if you would like me to send on just PM me.

                Hope this helps.

                Jim
                Attached Files

                Comment


                  #9
                  what about firmware upgrades? where would they come from?

                  currently the webserver only uses http://

                  are you interested in https:// for security purposes
                  Mark

                  HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
                  Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
                  Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
                  Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by mnsandler View Post
                    what about firmware upgrades? where would they come from?

                    currently the webserver only uses http://

                    are you interested in https:// for security purposes
                    Firmware upgrades come from Honeywell. I have attached firmware upgrade page from the install manual.

                    I have concerns using https:// for security purposes. I'm not sure what effect on security this would have.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                      #11
                      A minor update on status and other stuff

                      Hi all,

                      As someone else pointed out, the ICM should work with any Vista panel, so the Vista 20 should work.

                      As far as getting it under HomeSeer, there are a few things that I'm discovering as I'm creating this plugin. So, if you are interested in these things, as far as automation goes, then the ICM may not be the best choice.

                      Here are some of the things that I've seen so far that you cannot do:
                      • Determine the status of all the zones (you can only assume if you get a clean ***DISARMED**** that everything is good...after that you get faults or bypasses on individual zones).
                      • Determine which user armed or disarmed the system
                      • Occasionally the system will bypass zones on it's own and you won't know which ones are bypassed.
                      • Motion sensors trigger faults, but they fault, then reset very quickly (based on getting a ****DISARMED**** message), so they may not be useful for some automation events unless you just kick a timer off when you get the event. They also happen so fast that if your zone name (alpha) in the panel is longer than what fits on one line it may get missed. (The ICM gets messages one line at a time and sometimes the fault is so fast that you only get one line so don't know which device faulted in the case of motion).
                      • I'm sure there are other caveats that I'm either forgetting or will run into still...but I'll try to keep everyone posted.
                      In regards to where I am on the plug-in, check out the attached screenshot (assuming I attached it correctly). I have the Vista Security Panel appearing in HomeSeer and updating the status between Disarmed, Armed - Stay and Armed - Away. This is all live data coming from the ICM at this point. I'm also getting zone status messages but currently not processing them.

                      So, it's well on it's way, and if demand is high enough I'll release a 1.0 version with the security panel status (disarmed, stay, away, alarm) and zone status (clear, fault, bypass) with available triggers as soon as I have it available and stable for people to test with (as in not available as a download yet...haven't looked at the Updater ability yet).

                      I will keep everyone posted and feel free to shoot me any questions. I will also have some questions in regards to how people might want certain features to work (like low battery and zones in check).

                      Regards,
                      Chris
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jkarney View Post
                        Firmware upgrades come from Honeywell. I have attached firmware upgrade page from the install manual.

                        I have concerns using https:// for security purposes. I'm not sure what effect on security this would have.
                        have there actually been any upgrades? couldn't find any one the honeywell site
                        Mark

                        HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
                        Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
                        Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
                        Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ChrisDunn View Post
                          1. Determine the status of all the zones (you can only assume if you get a clean ***DISARMED**** that everything is good...after that you get faults or bypasses on individual zones).
                          2. Motion sensors trigger faults, but they fault, then reset very quickly (based on getting a ****DISARMED**** message), so they may not be useful for some automation events unless you just kick a timer off when you get the event. They also happen so fast that if your zone name (alpha) in the panel is longer than what fits on one line it may get missed. (The ICM gets messages one line at a time and sometimes the fault is so fast that you only get one line so don't know which device faulted in the case of motion).
                          Originally posted by ChrisDunn View Post
                          I'm also getting zone status messages but currently not processing them.
                          Chris, I am very interested in your plugin but do not have the ICM at this time.

                          that said, a few questions:

                          regarding #1 above and the next quote are confusing to me. are you saying, you can't poll for status, you just get updates (as zones change). thus you have to start from a given state and hope everything stays in sync?

                          regarding #2, the motion sensor issue could be handled by the plug-in DooMotion.
                          Mark

                          HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
                          Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
                          Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
                          Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Clarifying some things

                            In regards to updates for the ICM, there has been one that I've seen. When I installed my ICM, I went through the upgrdae process and it looks like there has just been that one.

                            To clarify the questions about my earlier post. For #1, you are correct, there is no way to poll the status of all the devices through ICM during initial startup. However, when you receive certain system status messages from the Vista panel, you know that the zones are all closed and in a good state. Specifically when you receive the ****DISARMED**** message, this indicates all zones are closed with no faults and no bypasses. From there, you will catch any faults or bypasses.

                            If I remember correctly the DooMotion is for standard motion sensors and not those connected as part of your Vista security panel. So, slightly different here.

                            Regards,
                            Chris

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ChrisDunn View Post
                              If I remember correctly the DooMotion is for standard motion sensors and not those connected as part of your Vista security panel. So, slightly different here.
                              here is one way i would want to use your plugin...

                              lets say I have several motion sensors (MS) connected via a vista panel and am using your plugin to maintain HS device status (on or off) of those MSs.

                              Then I would use DM to trigger other events based on the status of the MS. As I understand DM, it talks to HS devices not hardware directly.
                              Mark

                              HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
                              Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
                              Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
                              Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

                              Comment

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