mcstemperature5147 thermostat devices

[piever]

Hello Michael,

Great, it looks ok now. I changed the significant digits to 0 and it works.Can you do something aboud the use of setting 1 (20,0)?
I will change the resistor in my roombox becaurse the delta temp is to high. setting 28 en 29 degrees. On on 27 degrees and off at 32 degrees!!
Or the homeseer program works to slow!!

If I have a nice output I will send it to you.

Regards piever

[Michael McSharry]

The attached should deal with the regional setting problem of the comma. Make certain you have the Interface Page setup to have your decimal character identified as a comma. It is a setting toward the bottom of that page.

Unzip the attached into the Homeseer folder to replace hspi_mcsTemperature.exe. You may want to rename your existing one so you can go back if there is a problem with this one.

The speed of HS is not too slow for temperature control. mcsTemperature computes the control at 60 second intervals so it is not expecting a fast change in the input sensor.

You are entering the world of control theory. You will not have sufficient phase margin at this iteration rate or with a very fast change in the input sensor to have a stable control. mcsTemperature uses a simple proportional control (P). A traditional thermosat usually uses what is closer to a proportional-derivative (PD) control. You will also see "anticipation" used in the thermostat nomenclature and this is effectively the derivative component of the control. In essence is the rate of temperature change is high then the output control will change earlier to avoid overshoot.

The problem with the PD is the difficulty of accurately computing the rate of change becasue the input sensor resolution is typically pretty course. Perhaps 0.5 degree or usually at best 0.125 for low-cost sensors. This coupled with a modest interation rate make rate of change inaccurate and with this inaccuracy the control will be doing unexpected things. I did not implement the PD control because the typical end-user can understand how a P control behaves, but they will tend to think mcsTemperature was wrong if PD was used.

What I'm willing to try is provide another user input that controls the interation rate. The 60 second cycle is pretty slow for a control system. When the iteration rate is increased then more CPU cycles are used doing it so there is a tradeoff depending upon how many other things this computer is trying to do. If you want to evaluate a user-controlled iteration rate then let me know.

Another etiquite/courtesy item is a cleanup of attachments that no longer have value. The attachments in this thread take up Server space so unless there is some value to others then it is good to delete the attachments when their usefullness expires.

[Michael McSharry]

Here is a version with the Iteration Rate a user input. It is neer the bottom of the Interfaces page with the checkbox to enable the tempeature actions and triggers.

I also moved the debug log to a file in \Data\mcsTemperature rather than cluttering up the HS log.

[piever]

Hello Michael,

This is a output of mcs 51.47 before I change to your new 51.6. I known what P,PD,PID does. In the past I desiged controlsystems with the 8080 intel chip.Also temp and relay issues.
I also changed the resistor in my box (47 to 100 Ohm).The temp raising is not so quickly now and the delta temp is now from (set 28 to 29) min 27 to 30 degrees.
I will go on to check your new versions and send you my results.

Thanks so far.

piever. Netherlands

[piever]

Hello Michael,

I tested the version V5.15.2. I set in the interface tab . to , and in the display tab I use 0 digit =>ok

I tested the version V5.15.2. I set in the interface tab . to , and in the display tab I use 1 digit =>again Syntac messages =>not ok

I tested the version V5.16.0. I set in the interface tab . to , and in the display tab I use 0 digit, 60 sec =>ok

I tested the version V5.16.0. I set in the interface tab . to , and in the display tab I use 1 digit, 60 sec =>again Syntac messages =>not ok

I tested the version V5.16.0. I set in the interface tab . to , and in the display tab I use 1 digit, 30 sec =>again Syntac messages =>not ok

I tested the version V5.16.0. I set in the interface tab . to , and in the display tab I use 0 digit, 30 sec =>ok

The response of the mcs and homeseer is good. There is no difference between 60 and 30 sec. The problem of the big temp delta (set 28-29)27-30 comes from the 0 digit setting. 1 degrees above 29 (=30)and 1 degrees under 28 (=27). If the setting goes to 1 digit I get syntax error.

Still something wrong on the . and , settings? I also tried the . in the display tab =>no difference. Or the limits (28 and 29)must be also changed to 28,0 or 28.0?

Any idees?

regards Piever

[Michael McSharry]

Use the attached. There is a Special Debug checkbox on the Interface page at the bottom. Check it. It will produce a file mcsTemperature_GeneralDebugXXXX.txt file(s) in \Data\mcsTemperature and will contain the actual Expression evaluation parameters. Do an evaluation when the decimal character is a comma and when it is a period. Post the resultant log. I'm surprised that this issue has not be run into before. There is a rather larger international user base of mcsTemperature.

[piever]

Hello Michael,

Here are the results of the netherlands after install V5.16.1

1. logging_1700_1800_f11 =>interface tab = 30sec . (point)
display tab = 0 digit
2. logging_1800_1900_f11 =>interface tab = 30sec , (comma)
display tab = 0 digit
3. logging_1900_1930_f11 =>interface tab = 30sec , (comma)
display tab = 1 digit
4. logging_1945_2015_f11 =>interface tab = 30sec . (point)
display tab = 1 digit
5. Totaal graphic_f11 from 1700_2015.

When the display tab 1 digit in on =>still syntac errors.

I think most people use mcs as a fine monitoring and temp logging tool and not as a control tool (thermostats)or you get not feedback on problems for controlling stuff.

Regards piever.

[Michael McSharry]

This should do it. V5.16.2. Your interface setup should be a comma for the decimal character. You can use decimal values for the input sensor. The special debug is still available, but you should not need to use it unless you continue to have a problem.

[piever]

Hello Michael,

Great, it seems to be ok now. I will do some more testing (thermostat)creatings and so and control the box.
The last part of the graphic_f12 is done with the version 5162 =>ok

I will thank you for your time and quick reactions. Very fine to see this.

If everything goes ok,I will ask for the license for homeseer HS2 and the mcstemp plug-in. (trial date still 8 days)
Is it possible to get apporval for also a test system (without to be a 2e license)?

Regards Piever

[Michael McSharry]

All licensing is handled via HST so I cannot answer on a 2nd system. I want to point out on the charting of discrete signals for time scales larger than the 6 hours period that the discrete will represent time on over an interval rather than the on/off transitions. You would find that over larger periods of time that the actuals transitions would occur multiple times over a single pixel on the x asis and that would not be meaningful.