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  • Future of Home Automation

    HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.368, Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 - Home, Number of Devices: 373, Number of Events: 666, Enabled Plug-Ins
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  • #2
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    • #3
      Originally posted by mrhappy View Post
      Some of my thoughts...





      4) IR control of TV's etc likely to go by the wayside in favour of low power radio links like BLE or similar, likely to make control by third parties more difficult.

      Comcast is advertising a voice remote for their xfinity box. What technology does it use?

      Steve Q



      Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
      HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.368, Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 - Home, Number of Devices: 373, Number of Events: 666, Enabled Plug-Ins
      2.0.83.0: BLRF, 2.0.10.0: BLUSBUIRT, 3.0.0.75: HSTouch Server, 3.0.0.58: mcsXap, 3.0.0.11: NetCAM, 3.0.0.36: X10, 3.0.1.25: Z-Wave,Alexa,HomeKit

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Steve Q View Post
        Comcast is advertising a voice remote for their xfinity box. What technology does it use?

        Steve Q



        Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
        It uses some sort of RF. I don't have to the remote pointed at the unit ever to have it work. It seems most of my stuff now except TV is being controlled by RF in some way. The devices do still have the IR receiver and I still use it to control those devices, but I agree, I think its going away.

        Right now the Harmony Hub deals with it by utilizing either Bluetooth or network for connected devices, so I suspect control will be difficult to do initially on some devices, but over time this will be a none issue.

        I agree about the cloud debate too, its a tough one to swallow, but it opens options for electric companies to get on the bandwagon as well and offer something (I think this could be a gold mine for them once they think about it, but I also thought they would be more in the internet arena as well and you don't see it much).

        Voice control will be the future, everyone wants the star trek like feeling.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Steve Q View Post
          For the past 10-15 years, futurists have predicted that HA will grow exponentially. . . but IMHO, it has been a lot slower and less diversified than predicted.
          OK, what do you think!
          I suspect there will be an ebb and flow, much like computing overall. Ever larger and more powerful central computers -> (giving way to) distributed processing with 'desktop' then 'laptop' then 'hand held' computers -> more centralized processing for voice control and AI -> ever more powerful and smaller personal devices capable of greater autonomy.
          1. Voice control is here and will rapidly become the primary interface for home control/automation. Alexa, Siri, and Cortana will run our houses.
          Agree
          2. The future will be cloudy! The most successful and most highly used HA devices/systems will have cloud based components.
          Initially, but connectivity constraints and widespread adoption will limit centralized growth. New technical capability will eventually allow more distribution of computationally intensive processes. Suspicion of centralized control will also be an issue.
          I see this as personal preference more than technical capability. The current focus on home control is mainly because it's easier to understand - and sell control than automation.
          4. The phone will continue to be the most utilized device for HA. Legacy Desktop computer based systems will continue, but they will mainly be used to interact with cloud based systems.
          Yes to the diminished roll for the desktop, but the 'phone' is likely to be replaced as well.
          5. IOT will be everywhere and it will be driven by the financial institutions. Cash will largely disappear and will be replaced by phone monetary transactions. The infrastructure created for this will also support IOT. As we become more interconnected, home automation will be everywhere.
          I'd argue that cash has already 'largely' disappeared! Automation is also everywhere, we are just so used to it that we don't even think about it. (Think lighting candles, shoveling coal, cutting wood, carrying ashes, raising crops, feeding horses and hitching them to wagons, walking to town, transcribing documents by hand, typing letters, carbon paper, . . .) Automation will just continue to increase, probably at an accelerating rate.
          Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
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          • #6
            Originally posted by waynehead99 View Post



            I agree about the cloud debate too, its a tough one to swallow, but it opens options for electric companies to get on the bandwagon as well and offer something (I think this could be a gold mine for them once they think about it, but I also thought they would be more in the internet arena as well and you don't see it much).


            HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.368, Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 - Home, Number of Devices: 373, Number of Events: 666, Enabled Plug-Ins
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            • #7
              Home Automation has certainly come a long way since the X-10 days. But I have to say the movement toward cloud first vs local first. Is a terrible concept and isn't being deployed correctly at all times.

              Those with cloud only services / hardware are literally giving up privacy, security, and control. Never mind the reality is you're just leasing a product and the company can change the TOS at anytime and charge you or abandon the service.

              What I do like about the emerging HA technology is that it has literally allowed me to finally integrate energy monitoring with energy management via proactive & reactive voice control.

              My system will alert me vocally of any condition, state, program, and than allow me to either let reactive programs operate as expected or allow me to intervene and make finer adjustments.

              The one area where I strongly disagree upon are those who abuse and bastardize the whole HA and leave everyone else in danger / jeopardy!!

              Below is a sample of what I can do and know simply by asking Alexa about various attributes of my home and its super structure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x2Uh6qfOwg&t=8s

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              • #8
                Is a terrible concept and isn't being deployed correctly at all times.

                It's much cheaper and easier to lump thousands of users to a common platform with a huge database and have users abide by common rules. Automation for the masses.

                A couple of years ago on a to East coast trip (from the Midwest) via automobile stopping to get gas on the interstate saw a prime example of this automation stuff. Rather it was automating the user from the cloud.

                We stopped to get gas and food at a rest stop which included restaurants and shops.

                We saw a young married couple sitting a few tables away. While they sat together I noticed little conversation between the two of them. The gentleman mostly was looking at his smart phone and I could hear sounds from it where we were sitting. Noticed him getting up and he started to do calisthenics and appeared to follow whatever his smart phone was telling him. Soon everybody in the restaurant focused on his calistetics. His wife walked away from him and table. He continued for some 20 minutes or so. Personally it was entertaining to watch. Wife told me not to stare though.

                It's really already too late to disagree with this stuff as it's already a done deal. Next and happening soon will be the AI entities sourced by the big ISP companies that will be in everybodies cell phone or home. There have have been many precautions stated relating to AI but not heeded.
                - Pete

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                • #9
                  Future of Home Automation

                  Honestly, I am less interested in home control versus home automation. Anytime I have to touch my phone I take a serious look at what I am doing. However, There are some places where automation just isn't practical (yet).
                  I can see voice comm growing exponentially. What would happen if We could build a system that is predictive with our behavior. Things like events driven by non-verbal queues. Ex: I sit down on the couch and look at the TV, should the HA server turn on the TV? What if I sit down on the couch and open a book I had on the coffee table, the HA server should not turn on the TV. is the room at an adequate light level? Or even to your point, should the HA server capture my activity and query if I want it to become a regular event given the same triggers?

                  I won't lie, I am not a fan of cloud hosted solutions. cloud hosted services is just a rebranding for "centralized services" with the twist of "on the Public Internet" and an angle of pay for service instead of equipment. This type concept is used to:
                  1. reduce hardware related costs.
                  2. Control the environment.
                  3. Secure the software.
                  4. Gather data on use.
                  5. Secure communications.
                  6. Provision lots of system resources for complex tasks.

                  As home automation matures I suspect that points 1 and 6 will be minimalized. Also, I suspect that as the software develops points 2,3, and 6 will be diminished.
                  Point 5 securing communications is still a difficult process. There are still many organizations that do it poorly. Additionally, creating trusts between services isn't easy look at the requirements for an Echo skill. While I believe that this is difficult to overcome I suspect that it isn't impossible.
                  Lastly, point 4 in my opinion is the real reason many of these organizations are keeping their services in the cloud. If they keep their customers on the line, they continue to gather big data that can be leveraged in future.

                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  Last edited by Kerat; September 22nd, 2017, 04:19 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Don't get me wrong there is a use case for the cloud and I do see the benefits for the masses. What I find incredibly stupid is the endless monetizing or the need to know every facet of my life.

                    I don't need big brother watching over me each second of the day.

                    Also, as I stated when you own something in your home and you literally have no control over (IF) and (When) its going to operate and requires a constant Internet connection or even worse.

                    Having to make hops all over the world just to turn on the light?!?

                    You got to be completely insane and clueless as to how dumb that is. For me I have very few cloud based devices in my home. The only reason I have them is because I'm active Alpha / Beta tester for many companies. The one major thing I drive to them is offering a open API. Along with having the ability to control and access these *Cloud First* devices to ensure should the Internet or company go under.

                    The hardware will operate in some fashion even if its only in a basic mode.

                    Sadly, not every vendor I've worked with has seen the value or strength in doing so!!

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                    • #11
                      It is what sells today and most profitable. Nothing else matters. And really and ideally you pay for automation and control by the month and do not own anything.

                      Is there a better business model than this? If there is a reoccurring and endless profit then really why should these automation widgets be sold outright?

                      I personally succumbed to said business model in the 1980's for certain non computer type of widgets.

                      It is a win win formula and provides automation for pennies a month (as an introduction).

                      Here too I tinker (beta test?) with new stuff but really only mostly utilize my tried and true old automation stuff.

                      In the early 2000's and relating to a global enterprise network da boss said he wanted to make sure he could always get to anyone working for the company 24/7 365 days a year and wherever they were in the world. It was an enjoyable project.

                      When the cellular transport and smart phone widgets worked I disconnected my personal tether mostly because it worked too well and I wanted to have a personal life and a separate work life.
                      Last edited by Pete; September 22nd, 2017, 05:11 PM.
                      - Pete

                      Auto mator
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pete View Post
                        It is what sells today and most profitable. Nothing else matters. And really and ideally you pay for automation and control by the month and do not own anything.

                        Is there a better business model than this?

                        It is a win win formula and provides automation for pennies a month (as an introduction).

                        Here too I tinker (beta test?) with new stuff but really only mostly utilize my tried and true old automation stuff.
                        Sadly, this is very true.

                        But one can not just lay down and accept that fate with out voicing their opinions and views on the subject at hand. Some of the greatest changes came simply by a video, comment via Twitter, Facebook, etc.

                        Having been involved with the cloud for more than 15 years in a various roles for three of the largest companies in the world. What I see in terms of the so called *Cloud Power* is just a disaster waiting to happen.

                        Having to explain to so called IT System Admins why X isn't available, or what the SLA is for resolution for a Exchange server is quite comical. Why would anyone expect instant response and solution when the hardware that runs your entire infrastructure is hosted in the freaking cloud!?!

                        Only a moron would expect a positive outcome to giving up direct access and control of their network infrastructure. All I can say is hats off to the marketing and sales team in being able to bamboozal all the sheep into buying into this stupid concept.

                        The whole idea of *Thin Client / Remote Access / BackUp* was never intended for such mass adoption or deployment.

                        Its only by mans push to make everything around us faster, better, and more accessible that this so called IoT is where it is today. If I could reach out and punch the guy in the face that coined that phrase I would.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Teken View Post



                          Below is a sample of what I can do and know simply by asking Alexa about various attributes of my home and its super structure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x2Uh6qfOwg&t=8s

                          Why is it so hot in your house, and so cold outside? Also, I think you better get far away from your water heater!! [emoji95][emoji3]

                          Terry



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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by roussell View Post
                            Why is it so hot in your house, and so cold outside? Also, I think you better get far away from your water heater!! [emoji95][emoji3]

                            Terry
                            LOL . . .

                            I was wondering if and when someone would ask as to why the values Alexa was returning were so huge! Some of the appliances I have in development haven't properly supported the precision values. Where as others do so it will say 20.6' C vs what you hear as 206'C.

                            My hopes are in the future the developers will resolve this decimal value precision because folks who hear it the first time react the same way as you.

                            Only takes a few moments to realize the values need to be converted to human. As noted there are two aspects of this voice system one is proactive which you saw in the video which allows me to obtain up to date real time values in the home from Alexa.

                            The other system which I fondly call Julie U.S. is a reactive voice announcement system which provides notifications of different elements in and around the home. From weather, security, energy, environmental, user location, network resource states, and many other force protection elements in my home.

                            As I noted if the cloud is harnessed correctly what I and many others enjoy via Amazon Echo, Dot, Tap, is outstanding. But it does rely on the cloud and a constant Internet connection to operate if and when needed. Whereas my Julie U.S. operates locally and doesn't require access to anything besides a secure LAN connection.

                            I don't ever have to worry someone will pull the plug or charge me for something I already own. Nor do I ever have to worry about someone hacking the system or removing features that used to exist before. As has happen to Amazon Echo where specific words / phrases can't be used like Open vs Closed.

                            Regardless, not sure if anyone noticed but when Alexa replies the phrases are custom to me and my environment. They are not from Amazon's data base they are things I defined.

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                            • #15
                              HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.368, Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 - Home, Number of Devices: 373, Number of Events: 666, Enabled Plug-Ins
                              2.0.83.0: BLRF, 2.0.10.0: BLUSBUIRT, 3.0.0.75: HSTouch Server, 3.0.0.58: mcsXap, 3.0.0.11: NetCAM, 3.0.0.36: X10, 3.0.1.25: Z-Wave,Alexa,HomeKit

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