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  • zguy
    replied
    Originally posted by andredemontreal View Post
    Michel

    So, right now it doesn't look easy to control the TH1300ZB with HS4

    According to spud, the jowihue plugin along with ConBee II interface, deConz and Phoscon app are now the best way to go
    Not fully working yet but many actors are motivated to make it happen
    I'm currently controlling 3 TH1300ZB with HS4 via a Raspbee 2 Zigbee radio on a Raspberry PI, which is essentially the same as a Conbee 2 USB dongle, and the JowiHue plugin.

    As Spud mentions, it's not perfect but it does the essential, e.g. setting the setpoint whenever you want.

    Check this thread for more info: https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/li...tat-recognized

    Leave a comment:


  • andredemontreal
    replied
    Michel

    Just for your curiosity:
    Earlier Siemens PLCs (S7-300...) used Profibus DP, a powerful RS-485 network. Very good but difficult to reach without specific hardware, software and licenses...
    The S7-1200 PLC uses Profinet communication. A standard ethernet link but with powerful capabilities
    The PLC supports many protocols like ModbusTCP that I probably will use to talk to HS4
    A PLC is a bit expensive but is rock solid for critical stuff
    I played a lot with those in my automation career

    So, right now it doesn't look easy to control the TH1300ZB with HS4

    According to spud, the jowihue plugin along with ConBee II interface, deConz and Phoscon app are now the best way to go
    Not fully working yet but many actors are motivated to make it happen

    I am undecided if I wait for results or jump into it eyes closed...

    ..............

    André

    Leave a comment:


  • spud
    replied
    Originally posted by andredemontreal View Post

    spud


    I need your advice about the best way to connect Sinopé TH1300ZB thermostat to HS4 Pro.
    Please take a moment to read this post and maybe previous

    I have the new thermostat delivered next week
    I can order the Nortek USB key from Aartech at a reasonable price



    Thank-You

    André
    Read this
    https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/th...33#post1456833
    https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/li...tat-recognized

    I haven't read the whole thread on the jowihue plugin forum, but right now it looks like it's the best bet to integrate the Sinope Zigbee thermostat with HS4.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michel
    replied
    André,

    Nortek USB key : Just need to make sure that the Sinopé has been included in the Database by HS. This is what I meant by early stage. Otherwise, I'm sure HS integration will be solid as usual and setpoint changing will for sure be possible.

    PLC : So you're going industrial on this one. I know there is a Modbus plugin available but haven't ran across a Profibus. But where there's a will there's a way.

    Have fun.

    Leave a comment:


  • andredemontreal
    replied
    Michel

    I think the Nortek USB key is the easiest route. I suppose that Zigbee devices are added and handled by HS4 the same way as Z-Wave devices.
    Since I am getting pretty good now with various Z-Wave stuff in HS4, it seems to me a better approach than going with another layer (gateway...).

    I was quite happy with HS3 reliability and, more recently, with HS4 (Win10 is the weak link, so far...)
    I avoid using it for critical applications
    So, adding the Hubitat gateway - controller is not so attractive to me... (maybe I am wrong)

    I use a Siemens S7-1200 PLC for an elaborate water pumping and treatment system, for example...
    And I want to hook it up to HS4 one day for status and option selection. That is another story...


    Now, I need to make sure that the combination TH1300ZB - Nortek USB key - HS free Zigbee plugin will support, at least, temperature set point changes
    I will follow your suggestion and contact Spud

    Thank-You

    André



    spud


    I need your advice about the best way to connect Sinopé TH1300ZB thermostat to HS4 Pro.
    Please take a moment to read this post and maybe previous

    I have the new thermostat delivered next week
    I can order the Nortek USB key from Aartech at a reasonable price



    Thank-You

    André

    Leave a comment:


  • Michel
    replied
    Hi André,

    Right now, the GT-130 and HS4 cannot communicate together. In order to do so a few things would need to happen :
    1. Sinopé would need to update their API
    2. The Sinopé Plug-in would need to be update to work with that refreshed API
    I don't see any of these two happening shortly.

    The GT-130 only works with the Sinopé product line so it is not an option to add Zigbee compatibility to HS4. In my case, I bought the GT-130 for when I will have to sell our place and hand a stand alone system to the future owner.

    If you want to go with the Nortek USB key, you may want to look here. HOWEVER, before doing so, I would check with spud if the HS free Zigbee plugin supports that thermostat since it is still in an early stage. Spud is a Montreal community member who developed the original and previous generation Sinopé plug-in for the GT-125 and he now works for Homeseer. Therefore he knows pretty well the Sinopé thermostat while having an insight of where HS stands with Zigbee support.

    If you are interested in the Con Bee approach, you may try to contact zguy who I think got things working with this USB key along with the $39.99 USD JowiHue plug-in. When I looked at it I was also not so sure if I wanted to dive in that pool.

    As mentioned previously, I personally went with the Hubitat. You may want to bookmark this Canadian vendor for the future as they provide many components, in decent CAD pricing and much better shipping fees for us, on this side of the border. The Device is $179 CAD but the Plug-in is free. Hubitat has a long list of compatible devices but once it gets linked in HS, there is sometime initial adjustment to be made by the developer Michael McSharry as the plug-in attempts to link and map devices base on sets of Zigbee capabilities in Hubitat that are not always quite easy to map in HS. But once it is done, it works well. (see attached images)

    Since Hubitat is not only a gateway but rather a controller, it also open doors for having some logic ran on the Hubitat. I might use an approach where Hubitat assures some vital function shall HS crash unattended.

    The bottom line is that like everything else in home automation, there is not a fit all solution. It's always a matter of what you want to do, how much you want to pay and what technology you are having more fun with.

    Let me know how it goes.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • andredemontreal
    replied
    Michel,

    I called support at Sinopé and their answer was simply: "TH1300ZB is not compatible with HomeSeer"
    I understand they must be careful about compatibility with others...


    But it looks like it can really work

    So, I ordered a TH1300ZB thermostat
    Thanks I got 15% off

    I have nothing Zigbee so far on my HS4 v4.1.15.0

    I could order Nortek HUSBZB-1 Zigbee & Z-Wave Plus USB Interface
    But, ordering from Canada is quite costly (49 $ USD plus 100 $ USD for shipping !!!)
    I guess it is the simplest method
    Will the TH1300ZB work with HomeSeer basic Zigbee plugin 4.0.8.0?


    Should I use the Sinopé GT130 Gateway instead?
    I like it's ethernet connection (compared to USB)
    Is device management done by HS4 (like Z-Wave) or do I need another layer that talks to the GT130?
    Can I add other Zigbee devices even not Sinopé?
    I read that GT130 is "internet dependent", true? This means it does not work if Internet is down!

    Better alternatives?

    Some current forum discussions are a bit scary...
    https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/li...cognized/page5


    Thank-You

    André

    Leave a comment:


  • Michel
    replied
    André,

    You might find additional info about the Sinopé floor heating combined with Zigbee in this thread.

    I Also just received a 15% coupon for Earth day if you're in the shopping process. Coupon "PLANET2021" expiring April 24th 2021 03:00 EDT

    Leave a comment:


  • Michel
    replied
    Setpoint is Read/Write

    If included in your Zigbee network then the scheduling has to be done by HS4.

    If you use Sinopé's GT130 Gateway then each T-Stat are Zigbee tied to that GT-130. From there, there is scheduling and other setting like Geofencing and Utility high rate adaptation. But then you cannot have the same T-Sat on (2) different Zibbee network and the GT-130 cannot be tied to an other Zigbee network.

    With the previous generation (GT-125) Sinopé was using their own protocol called Mi-Wi if I remember correctly. Spud has a plug-in that ties to the API. That API is suppose to be upgraded eventually by Sinopé to include their new generation but so far nothing. If that was the case, you could have T-Stat reporting to GT-130 and GT-130 supplying info to HS thru the API.

    Leave a comment:


  • 123qweasd
    replied
    The Zigbee information consist of (may differ depending on the gateway and plug-in used):
    • Actual temperature
    • Setpoint
    • Heat status (Heating/Standby)
      Note 1: Different from Stelpro "pulsing" active status thus less traffic. I personnaly liked better the previous version wher they were giving a percentage.
    • Possibility to set the clock
      Note 2 : When part of your own Zigbee network, you loose the ability to display the outside temperature, like the Sinopé gateway normally do.
    Thanks for the details; are these features "status only" or can you actually control/change values via Zigbee?
    Also I don't see schedule management, is it part of the zigbee control as well ?

    I am also on the market to replace my 11 OJ microline thermostats for new units that can be controlled directly (not cloud based);
    Heated floors is my main/only source of heating here; will only change if I have full/direct control.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michel
    replied
    Hi André,

    Dumb (no Z-Wave etc...) vs Very dumb (no schedule) : Agreed that for non HA passionate peoples it needs to be simple but I think that at least having some scheduling is a must but it is certainly not a show stopper when it comes time to sell.

    L1 + L2 : Again, I could be mistaken with that. When I first got a few of the Stelpro I was thinking of replacing some of the in-floor heating breakers by GFCI one and then add the Stelpro but I just could not find anything confirming that it was OK or not. In the end it was also getting more expensive then going with Sinopé.

    Sinopé : From what I heard, they were the one behind Aube before it gets bought by Honeywell. From there they came-up with Sinopé. Their new display version is very nice.

    The Zigbee information consist of (may differ depending on the gateway and plug-in used):
    • Actual temperature
    • Setpoint
    • Heat status (Heating/Standby)
      Note 1: Different from Stelpro "pulsing" active status thus less traffic. I personnaly liked better the previous version wher they were giving a percentage.
    • Possibility to set the clock
      Note 2 : When part of your own Zigbee network, you loose the ability to display the outside temperature, like the Sinopé gateway normally do.
    Regarding your proposed logic, it could be done by paying some attention to your event structure.
    1. If setpoint moved-up? (i.e. user pressed the UP button)
    2. Then change setpoint to 34C
    3. If setpoint moves down (i.e. user pressed the DOWN button)
    4. Then change setpoint to 24C
    Of course you would need to add more to it as step 2 and 4 are also setpoints changes and you don't want your event to trigger twice.

    Regards.

    Leave a comment:


  • andredemontreal
    replied
    Michel

    Yeah, I often forget that one day, someone else will need to use and troubleshoot my stuff...

    "The down side was that they do not have an autonomous schedule feature. So again, in the eventuality of selling, they become dumb thermostats for the buyer."
    I guess that if the next user dislike complex automation, like most people, a dumb thermostat is best.
    I really like a minimalist user interface. The STZW402+ is perfect to me, simple but controllable.

    I doubt that a thermostat need to cut both L1 and L2 to controls heat.
    For sure, a thermostat with GFCI must have four wires to be able to isolate both lines when a ground fault is detected.
    I am pretty sure the internal heat relay or triac only handles one line.
    Then, adding the GFCI function upstream (two pole breaker or dummy GFCI thermostat), I could safely use the STZW402+

    The Sinopé thermostat looks like a very good alternative. And, it's designed in Québec...
    I didn't look for Zigbee, this widens my choices...
    I am wondering if I could program the two buttons for my two presets (normal - shower).
    The documentation on their site does not speak about Zigbee commands.


    Thanks for the ideas

    André

    Leave a comment:


  • ewkearns
    replied
    Potential note on safety: According to the National Electric Code, heating circuits are considered a continuous load and therefore must be derated by 25%. (For example: a 20 Amp heating circuit cannot have more than 16 Amps of load connected.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Michel
    replied
    Hi André,

    Just adding to your reflection :

    You obviously realize the importance of keeping the GFCI integrity for floor heating. On the same token, when it comes to your heating system, I personally feel it is important to keep components as close as possible of their genuine design. So snipping out an on board sensor to connect your spare 10K might not be the preferred option. Even if selling your home is not part of your plan yet...it might be some day and you will be happy to have kept things genuine, as your potential buyer might not be as tech savvy as you are. This reflection goes back to a couple of years and from it I came-up with one of my life guidelines "It is not because I'm able to do it that I should do it"

    Stelpro STZW402+ : I bought those as soon as they came out a few years ago and it is true that they work great. The down side was that they do not have an autonomous schedule feature. So again, in the eventuality of selling, they become dumb thermostats for the buyer. Stelpro was also suppose to come-up with a floor version and they never did so like you I was stuck with my plans. Finally, this Stelpro thermostat only "cuts" L1 when there is no call for heat and if I'm not mistaken, you absolutely need to "cut" L1 and L2 for floor heating.

    Here's another approach. Replace your existing UTN4-4999 thermostat by a Sinopé TH1300ZB. Priced at : $187 CAD. It is not Z-Wave but Zigbee. Adding Zigbee to your system would open it to more devices. If I'm right, there are currently (3) ways to add Zigbee to your system.
    1. Add the HS Zigbee USB dongle and use the built-in HS plug-in. From what I saw, it is still in the early stage.
    2. Add a Con Bee USB dongle and use JowiHue plugin. Seems to have good success.
    3. Add a Hubitat Elevation and use it only as a gateway with Michael's plug-in. That's the option I choose. Since it also support Z-Wave I removed my previous Z-Wave gateway. I also needed to have access to another type of devices that the 2nd option was not covering. Did that 1-2 months ago and so far it is very reliable.
    Optional : What I did with the Sinopé is that I also purchased their gateway and left it in its box. If I ever sell our place, I'll put it in service and that will become a user friendly, self-working system with schedule, phone apps, Web page etc...

    Good luck.

    Michel.

    Leave a comment:


  • andredemontreal
    replied
    Electric floor heating automation with HS4

    I want to automate my existing bathroom floor heating with HS4
    I simply want to switch between normal temperature (about 24 C) and shower (about 34 C)
    It takes less than 30 minutes to heat up, it is so nice to take a shower with a warm floor
    I now have an OJ Electronics non programmable thermostat with 5mA GFCI model UTN4-4999 (sold by Schluter as DITRA-HEAT-E-R)


    One way is to purchase an OJ Electronics Wifi programmable touchscreen thermostat model UWG4-4999 and discard the existing one
    Quite expensive: 350 $ CAD
    Also, do I need a Wifi plugin? Easy configuration? Reliable automation? I have no experience with Wifi devices on HS4...


    Another approach is to keep my existing thermostat to have the GFCI function, HI limit protection (set temperature become hi limit) and actual temperature display
    I would add a Z-Wave hidden temperature controller connected to the spare floor temperature sensor
    The Qubino Flush On/Off Thermostat ZMNHID Z-Wave looks good except it uses a 3 wire digital sensor that seems not compatible with my spare 10k ohms thermistor embedded in my floor
    I need to find a temperature controller compatible with thermistor and able to switch 1080W at 240V
    One thing I dislike is to have the floor embedded temperature sensor connected to a non isolated 240VAC controller (although the GFCI ahead would protect me...)


    Another option:
    I have Remotec ZTS-500 low voltage thermostats on hand
    I need to cut the internal thermostat sensor and connect instead the existing floor sensor. I believe they are compatible.
    Then, I need a 240V relay and 24V transformer and hide everything in the basement
    I would keep my existing thermostat to keep the GFCI function, HI limit protection and actual temperature display


    Another option:
    Aube/Honeywell TH115-AF-GA programmable thermostat with GFCI and external floor sensor
    It has a discrete input for Energy Saving Vacation Mode
    I could connect a dry contact relay controlled by HS4
    The drawback is when the relay contact is closed, it is jammed in Vacation Mode, no way to change mode on the front panel
    But it would satisfy my needs...
    It is also quite expensive 240 $ CAD plus the Z-Wave relay module...

    Or
    Replace the existing thermostat with a Stelpro STZW402+ thermostat
    This is what I use everywhere here and I like it pretty much
    I need to cut the internal thermostat sensor and connect instead the existing floor sensor. I believe they are compatible.
    One thing I dislike is to have the floor embedded temperature sensor connected to a non isolated 240VAC controller (although the GFCI ahead would protect me...)
    Again, I would keep my existing thermostat only to keep the GFCI function, but it would be hidden this time since the Stelpro provides a good user interface


    Stelpro has a programmable floor heating thermostat model STCPW5
    But:
    Not remote controllable
    Does not allow more than 28C
    Cumbersome user interface, too many buttons and numbers...


    It seems there is nothing easy for floor heating
    I dream of a cost effective Z-Wave thermostat with GFCI, external 10k sensor and simple user interface


    Anybody have success or have a good idea?

    Thank-You

    André

    Leave a comment:

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