Beware of eBay! I thought some of you might enjoy this. The end result is that eBay forced me to fully refund this customer, costing me $$ for no reason.
At the beginning of December I listed a couple of Batteries for a Snow Joe Snow Blower. These batteries were something I couldn't use or return. They were shipped to me as compensation for a defective product and all the costs I incurred handling it. Snow Joe "screwed the pooch" handling a $960 snow blower that was defective and was a replacement for another defective unit. I paid for the original snow blower in November. A month later and after I listed these batteries, the second replacement arrived. That story is equally ugly and long, but for another day.
I sold the batteries on Saturday Dec 07, 2019 19:59 PST
On Monday morning I get a message from the buyer:"I don’t see that you have shipped this yet. I need it for my snow blower and it is going to snow in a week! So if you don’t have it in stock for immediate shipping, please cancel the order"
I should have known that he was going to be a problem, since I had packaged them on the day before, purchased postage and provided him with tracking information. I replied: "You purchased the item at 9:00PM on Saturday, today is the first day they could have been shipped. I packaged them for shipment yesterday and provided you with a USPS tracking number 9405508699939460776169. The mail has yet to be picked up today, but they are out for pickup. I'm not sure how I could have been any faster."
His reply was reassuring: "I am very sorry, I’m happy that they are on the way. Sorry, I’m an idiot!"
The batteries were shipped that monday and delivered the following Monday evening. I have no idea why USPS took a week to deliver a priority mail (3-day) package, but that is beyond my control.
The next day he requested a return. Reason for return:" Doesn't work or defective".
In the text of the return he wrote: "Sir, I ordered these as a 2nd set. It snowed Saturday and Sunday and I used my Snow Joe blower for the first time before your batteries arrived. $1000 blower and it was awful. I was leery of a battery operated machine being capable of clearing snow. I was right. Please allow me to mark the unopened package you sent “RETURN TO SENDER”. My sincere apologies."
Clearly there was nothing wrong with the batteries and clearly he was not being truthful. So much for my wishful thinking he was reasonable. I replied: "I'm sorry, but the item was listed as "Seller does not accept returns". In your request you state that you changed your mind about the purchase, not that there was anything wrong with the items. I am not a retailer, just ian individual selling items on eBay. I have shipping costs, PayPal fees and eBay fees involved in this sale. I cannot accept your return request. I would suggest that you list them on eBay and sell them yourself."
He replied: "I don’t know if anything is wrong with the item. There could be as the box is in very bad shape. But as I stated, I have not opened the package. If you would like me to open the shipment and evaluate the condition of your item, please instruct me to open and inspect the items. The box has been mishandled"
So, now that I am rejecting his request for obvious reasons, he decides they might be defective.
I asked him to send me pictures of the unopened box. He refused
I asked him to open the box and verify the contents were damaged. He again refused
I called eBay and they said I had to accept the return, pay the return shipping, then appeal the case when I got them back. I paid about $10 to ship them to him and now had to eat another $10 to get them back. As a side note PayPal charges 3% + $0.30 on the transaction and they no longer refund the fees to the seller on a return. So I am our another ~$7.75. Altogether I paid about $28 in fees and shipping. I also was charged a 10% fee by eBay when they sold. They invoiced me on December 15 and collected $26 on December 23. I will get those fees credited back to my account next month, but I will not get them refunded. The only way I will get them back is to sell more on eBay and use it against future fees. Given this experience, I will be hard pressed to deal with eBay ever again.
Now I received the return yesterday. As I suspected, there was no damage to the box other than two slightly dented corners on the shipping box. The contents were perfect.
I contacted eBay again and they stated I should offer a partial refund to the customer. By now I am realizing that this guy was skilled at working eBay and that I would lose. Nevertheless I sent a message yesterday: "I received the items today. Because the items were listed and sold as non returnable and there was nothing wrong with the items, I will be issuing a refund for the item, minus a restocking fee to cover PayPal fees, shipping and return shipping of $26.00. A refund of $234 will be issued within 3 business days"
I knew this was going to be difficult, but this exchange was so ridiculous as to not be believed:
Him: "I will fight this out with EBay. Restocking fee, I don’t think so. The box was damaged. Never open batteries that are possibly damaged. Your complaint is with the post office not me. I didn’t damage the item. If you proceed I will spell it out on feedback for you. You are not an honest person"
Me: "It is interesting that you accuse me of dishonesty. When you initiated the return request You stated that the item "Doesn't work or defective". That clearly was not true since in that return request you wrote: "Sir, I ordered these as a 2nd set. It snowed Saturday and Sunday and I used my Snow Joe blower for the first time before your batteries arrived. $1000 blower and it was awful. I was leery of a battery operated machine being capable of clearing snow. I was right. Please allow me to mark the unopened package you sent “RETURN TO SENDER”. My sincere apologies."
Clearly when you requested the return you were returning them because you changed your mind. You only mentioned the damage to the box after I reminded you that the product was sold without the option of returning it. You were unwilling to open or inspect the items which are in perfectly perfectly good condition. When I received the box back it had a small dent on two corners, certainly not substantial damage at all. I would have been willing to accept the return if the product was damaged and could have filed a claim with the USPS if damage were incurred. No such damage exists as you can see in the attached pictures.
Please explain to me how you feel it is fair for me to spend more than the amount I am charging you in PayPal fees and round trip shipping when you simply changed your mind. You accuse me of dealing in bad faith and of dishonesty. You are projecting, because it is you who misrepresented that state of the items and refused to open them and inspect them. I have been fair and honest with you, only asking that you live up to the terms of the sale that were clearly stated at the time you purchased the batteries. I also have already paid Ebay 10% in sellers fees which are above and beyond the amounts outlined above. Those fees will likely be refunded next month as a credit, but I am still out the shipping and PayPal fees. Your actions caused me to miss the Christmas selling"
Him: "Sir, you are being dishonest. Ebay refunded your 10% charge"
Me: "Your reading comprehension is poor. I wrote: "I also have already paid Ebay 10% in sellers fees which are above and beyond the amounts outlined above. Those fees will likely be refunded next month as a credit, but I am still out the shipping and PayPal fees." They have not refunded them yet, but they will next month. I HAVE already paid them, they billed me on December 15 and they collected just before Christmas.
Once again You are accusing me of being dishonest, yet I am the one who is stating everything accurately and truthfully."
Him: "Also, I am sure your batteries were stolen. Why would you obtained them"
Clearly I am dealing with an articulate, sincere and honest person
Me: "This will be my last response, as I can tell that you are projecting on me your own weakness of character. Be careful as your statements if made in a public forum could constitute slander. That might be true with these messages as they are viewable by members of the eBay team. Attached is a copy of the shipping invoice from Sun Joe/Snow Joe dated 11/25/19. They were sent in two USPS trackable packages that I received just days before listing them on eBay. As you can see they were $358 including shipping, so I was already taking a bath on them at $260.
(probably a little bit of a fib on my part, implying that they cost me, but indirectly I more than paid for them)
Him: "So somehow you defrauded Snow Joe out of two batteries you probably told them were defected. Then you resell them on eBay and keep the two batteries you had that were really fine? I see the other s**t [editing mine] you’re selling, this is the only explanation. My reading skills are fine. I’m an attorney, sue me. Slander? You’re watching too much of Schiff and Pelosi."
Him again: "I have reported you to Snow Joe so they can check your claim that you didn’t have working batteries for your Snow Joe, but then you put what you defrauded them out of right onto your crappy little Ebay account and sold them"
I am amazed at how politics invades everything these days. Note that I have nothing on eBay other than relisting these batteries. I will probably pull the listing and move to another sales vehicle.
I appealed the return to eBay and they told me I had to refund !00% of his money. Then I could appeal it to eBay and they might refund me my shipping costs and they might refund my fees to PayPal. I should call them again after I refund the "gentleman" for them to review the case.
The purpose of this rather long missive is not to elicit sympathy or to spur action toward eBay. It is just something I found to be both frustrating and enlightening. Sometimes I miss being dealt with as honestly as I deal with others. I guess I grew up in a different time.
At the beginning of December I listed a couple of Batteries for a Snow Joe Snow Blower. These batteries were something I couldn't use or return. They were shipped to me as compensation for a defective product and all the costs I incurred handling it. Snow Joe "screwed the pooch" handling a $960 snow blower that was defective and was a replacement for another defective unit. I paid for the original snow blower in November. A month later and after I listed these batteries, the second replacement arrived. That story is equally ugly and long, but for another day.
I sold the batteries on Saturday Dec 07, 2019 19:59 PST
On Monday morning I get a message from the buyer:"I don’t see that you have shipped this yet. I need it for my snow blower and it is going to snow in a week! So if you don’t have it in stock for immediate shipping, please cancel the order"
I should have known that he was going to be a problem, since I had packaged them on the day before, purchased postage and provided him with tracking information. I replied: "You purchased the item at 9:00PM on Saturday, today is the first day they could have been shipped. I packaged them for shipment yesterday and provided you with a USPS tracking number 9405508699939460776169. The mail has yet to be picked up today, but they are out for pickup. I'm not sure how I could have been any faster."
His reply was reassuring: "I am very sorry, I’m happy that they are on the way. Sorry, I’m an idiot!"
The batteries were shipped that monday and delivered the following Monday evening. I have no idea why USPS took a week to deliver a priority mail (3-day) package, but that is beyond my control.
The next day he requested a return. Reason for return:" Doesn't work or defective".
In the text of the return he wrote: "Sir, I ordered these as a 2nd set. It snowed Saturday and Sunday and I used my Snow Joe blower for the first time before your batteries arrived. $1000 blower and it was awful. I was leery of a battery operated machine being capable of clearing snow. I was right. Please allow me to mark the unopened package you sent “RETURN TO SENDER”. My sincere apologies."
Clearly there was nothing wrong with the batteries and clearly he was not being truthful. So much for my wishful thinking he was reasonable. I replied: "I'm sorry, but the item was listed as "Seller does not accept returns". In your request you state that you changed your mind about the purchase, not that there was anything wrong with the items. I am not a retailer, just ian individual selling items on eBay. I have shipping costs, PayPal fees and eBay fees involved in this sale. I cannot accept your return request. I would suggest that you list them on eBay and sell them yourself."
He replied: "I don’t know if anything is wrong with the item. There could be as the box is in very bad shape. But as I stated, I have not opened the package. If you would like me to open the shipment and evaluate the condition of your item, please instruct me to open and inspect the items. The box has been mishandled"
So, now that I am rejecting his request for obvious reasons, he decides they might be defective.
I asked him to send me pictures of the unopened box. He refused
I asked him to open the box and verify the contents were damaged. He again refused
I called eBay and they said I had to accept the return, pay the return shipping, then appeal the case when I got them back. I paid about $10 to ship them to him and now had to eat another $10 to get them back. As a side note PayPal charges 3% + $0.30 on the transaction and they no longer refund the fees to the seller on a return. So I am our another ~$7.75. Altogether I paid about $28 in fees and shipping. I also was charged a 10% fee by eBay when they sold. They invoiced me on December 15 and collected $26 on December 23. I will get those fees credited back to my account next month, but I will not get them refunded. The only way I will get them back is to sell more on eBay and use it against future fees. Given this experience, I will be hard pressed to deal with eBay ever again.
Now I received the return yesterday. As I suspected, there was no damage to the box other than two slightly dented corners on the shipping box. The contents were perfect.
I contacted eBay again and they stated I should offer a partial refund to the customer. By now I am realizing that this guy was skilled at working eBay and that I would lose. Nevertheless I sent a message yesterday: "I received the items today. Because the items were listed and sold as non returnable and there was nothing wrong with the items, I will be issuing a refund for the item, minus a restocking fee to cover PayPal fees, shipping and return shipping of $26.00. A refund of $234 will be issued within 3 business days"
I knew this was going to be difficult, but this exchange was so ridiculous as to not be believed:
Him: "I will fight this out with EBay. Restocking fee, I don’t think so. The box was damaged. Never open batteries that are possibly damaged. Your complaint is with the post office not me. I didn’t damage the item. If you proceed I will spell it out on feedback for you. You are not an honest person"
Me: "It is interesting that you accuse me of dishonesty. When you initiated the return request You stated that the item "Doesn't work or defective". That clearly was not true since in that return request you wrote: "Sir, I ordered these as a 2nd set. It snowed Saturday and Sunday and I used my Snow Joe blower for the first time before your batteries arrived. $1000 blower and it was awful. I was leery of a battery operated machine being capable of clearing snow. I was right. Please allow me to mark the unopened package you sent “RETURN TO SENDER”. My sincere apologies."
Clearly when you requested the return you were returning them because you changed your mind. You only mentioned the damage to the box after I reminded you that the product was sold without the option of returning it. You were unwilling to open or inspect the items which are in perfectly perfectly good condition. When I received the box back it had a small dent on two corners, certainly not substantial damage at all. I would have been willing to accept the return if the product was damaged and could have filed a claim with the USPS if damage were incurred. No such damage exists as you can see in the attached pictures.
Please explain to me how you feel it is fair for me to spend more than the amount I am charging you in PayPal fees and round trip shipping when you simply changed your mind. You accuse me of dealing in bad faith and of dishonesty. You are projecting, because it is you who misrepresented that state of the items and refused to open them and inspect them. I have been fair and honest with you, only asking that you live up to the terms of the sale that were clearly stated at the time you purchased the batteries. I also have already paid Ebay 10% in sellers fees which are above and beyond the amounts outlined above. Those fees will likely be refunded next month as a credit, but I am still out the shipping and PayPal fees. Your actions caused me to miss the Christmas selling"
Him: "Sir, you are being dishonest. Ebay refunded your 10% charge"
Me: "Your reading comprehension is poor. I wrote: "I also have already paid Ebay 10% in sellers fees which are above and beyond the amounts outlined above. Those fees will likely be refunded next month as a credit, but I am still out the shipping and PayPal fees." They have not refunded them yet, but they will next month. I HAVE already paid them, they billed me on December 15 and they collected just before Christmas.
Once again You are accusing me of being dishonest, yet I am the one who is stating everything accurately and truthfully."
Him: "Also, I am sure your batteries were stolen. Why would you obtained them"
Clearly I am dealing with an articulate, sincere and honest person
Me: "This will be my last response, as I can tell that you are projecting on me your own weakness of character. Be careful as your statements if made in a public forum could constitute slander. That might be true with these messages as they are viewable by members of the eBay team. Attached is a copy of the shipping invoice from Sun Joe/Snow Joe dated 11/25/19. They were sent in two USPS trackable packages that I received just days before listing them on eBay. As you can see they were $358 including shipping, so I was already taking a bath on them at $260.
(probably a little bit of a fib on my part, implying that they cost me, but indirectly I more than paid for them)
Him: "So somehow you defrauded Snow Joe out of two batteries you probably told them were defected. Then you resell them on eBay and keep the two batteries you had that were really fine? I see the other s**t [editing mine] you’re selling, this is the only explanation. My reading skills are fine. I’m an attorney, sue me. Slander? You’re watching too much of Schiff and Pelosi."
Him again: "I have reported you to Snow Joe so they can check your claim that you didn’t have working batteries for your Snow Joe, but then you put what you defrauded them out of right onto your crappy little Ebay account and sold them"
I am amazed at how politics invades everything these days. Note that I have nothing on eBay other than relisting these batteries. I will probably pull the listing and move to another sales vehicle.
I appealed the return to eBay and they told me I had to refund !00% of his money. Then I could appeal it to eBay and they might refund me my shipping costs and they might refund my fees to PayPal. I should call them again after I refund the "gentleman" for them to review the case.
The purpose of this rather long missive is not to elicit sympathy or to spur action toward eBay. It is just something I found to be both frustrating and enlightening. Sometimes I miss being dealt with as honestly as I deal with others. I guess I grew up in a different time.
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