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  • eBay fun

    Beware of eBay! I thought some of you might enjoy this. The end result is that eBay forced me to fully refund this customer, costing me $$ for no reason.

    At the beginning of December I listed a couple of Batteries for a Snow Joe Snow Blower. These batteries were something I couldn't use or return. They were shipped to me as compensation for a defective product and all the costs I incurred handling it. Snow Joe "screwed the pooch" handling a $960 snow blower that was defective and was a replacement for another defective unit. I paid for the original snow blower in November. A month later and after I listed these batteries, the second replacement arrived. That story is equally ugly and long, but for another day.

    I sold the batteries on Saturday Dec 07, 2019 19:59 PST
    On Monday morning I get a message from the buyer:"I don’t see that you have shipped this yet. I need it for my snow blower and it is going to snow in a week! So if you don’t have it in stock for immediate shipping, please cancel the order"

    I should have known that he was going to be a problem, since I had packaged them on the day before, purchased postage and provided him with tracking information. I replied: "You purchased the item at 9:00PM on Saturday, today is the first day they could have been shipped. I packaged them for shipment yesterday and provided you with a USPS tracking number 9405508699939460776169. The mail has yet to be picked up today, but they are out for pickup. I'm not sure how I could have been any faster."

    His reply was reassuring: "I am very sorry, I’m happy that they are on the way. Sorry, I’m an idiot!"

    The batteries were shipped that monday and delivered the following Monday evening. I have no idea why USPS took a week to deliver a priority mail (3-day) package, but that is beyond my control.

    The next day he requested a return. Reason for return:" Doesn't work or defective".
    In the text of the return he wrote: "Sir, I ordered these as a 2nd set. It snowed Saturday and Sunday and I used my Snow Joe blower for the first time before your batteries arrived. $1000 blower and it was awful. I was leery of a battery operated machine being capable of clearing snow. I was right. Please allow me to mark the unopened package you sent “RETURN TO SENDER”. My sincere apologies."

    Clearly there was nothing wrong with the batteries and clearly he was not being truthful. So much for my wishful thinking he was reasonable. I replied: "I'm sorry, but the item was listed as "Seller does not accept returns". In your request you state that you changed your mind about the purchase, not that there was anything wrong with the items. I am not a retailer, just ian individual selling items on eBay. I have shipping costs, PayPal fees and eBay fees involved in this sale. I cannot accept your return request. I would suggest that you list them on eBay and sell them yourself."

    He replied: "I don’t know if anything is wrong with the item. There could be as the box is in very bad shape. But as I stated, I have not opened the package. If you would like me to open the shipment and evaluate the condition of your item, please instruct me to open and inspect the items. The box has been mishandled"

    So, now that I am rejecting his request for obvious reasons, he decides they might be defective.

    I asked him to send me pictures of the unopened box. He refused
    I asked him to open the box and verify the contents were damaged. He again refused

    I called eBay and they said I had to accept the return, pay the return shipping, then appeal the case when I got them back. I paid about $10 to ship them to him and now had to eat another $10 to get them back. As a side note PayPal charges 3% + $0.30 on the transaction and they no longer refund the fees to the seller on a return. So I am our another ~$7.75. Altogether I paid about $28 in fees and shipping. I also was charged a 10% fee by eBay when they sold. They invoiced me on December 15 and collected $26 on December 23. I will get those fees credited back to my account next month, but I will not get them refunded. The only way I will get them back is to sell more on eBay and use it against future fees. Given this experience, I will be hard pressed to deal with eBay ever again.

    Now I received the return yesterday. As I suspected, there was no damage to the box other than two slightly dented corners on the shipping box. The contents were perfect.

    I contacted eBay again and they stated I should offer a partial refund to the customer. By now I am realizing that this guy was skilled at working eBay and that I would lose. Nevertheless I sent a message yesterday: "I received the items today. Because the items were listed and sold as non returnable and there was nothing wrong with the items, I will be issuing a refund for the item, minus a restocking fee to cover PayPal fees, shipping and return shipping of $26.00. A refund of $234 will be issued within 3 business days"

    I knew this was going to be difficult, but this exchange was so ridiculous as to not be believed:

    Him: "I will fight this out with EBay. Restocking fee, I don’t think so. The box was damaged. Never open batteries that are possibly damaged. Your complaint is with the post office not me. I didn’t damage the item. If you proceed I will spell it out on feedback for you. You are not an honest person"

    Me: "It is interesting that you accuse me of dishonesty. When you initiated the return request You stated that the item "Doesn't work or defective". That clearly was not true since in that return request you wrote: "Sir, I ordered these as a 2nd set. It snowed Saturday and Sunday and I used my Snow Joe blower for the first time before your batteries arrived. $1000 blower and it was awful. I was leery of a battery operated machine being capable of clearing snow. I was right. Please allow me to mark the unopened package you sent “RETURN TO SENDER”. My sincere apologies."

    Clearly when you requested the return you were returning them because you changed your mind. You only mentioned the damage to the box after I reminded you that the product was sold without the option of returning it. You were unwilling to open or inspect the items which are in perfectly perfectly good condition. When I received the box back it had a small dent on two corners, certainly not substantial damage at all. I would have been willing to accept the return if the product was damaged and could have filed a claim with the USPS if damage were incurred. No such damage exists as you can see in the attached pictures.

    Please explain to me how you feel it is fair for me to spend more than the amount I am charging you in PayPal fees and round trip shipping when you simply changed your mind. You accuse me of dealing in bad faith and of dishonesty. You are projecting, because it is you who misrepresented that state of the items and refused to open them and inspect them. I have been fair and honest with you, only asking that you live up to the terms of the sale that were clearly stated at the time you purchased the batteries. I also have already paid Ebay 10% in sellers fees which are above and beyond the amounts outlined above. Those fees will likely be refunded next month as a credit, but I am still out the shipping and PayPal fees. Your actions caused me to miss the Christmas selling"


    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_1958.jpg Views:	0 Size:	125.0 KB ID:	1349976Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_1960.jpg Views:	0 Size:	151.4 KB ID:	1349977

    Him: "Sir, you are being dishonest. Ebay refunded your 10% charge"

    Me: "Your reading comprehension is poor. I wrote: "I also have already paid Ebay 10% in sellers fees which are above and beyond the amounts outlined above. Those fees will likely be refunded next month as a credit, but I am still out the shipping and PayPal fees." They have not refunded them yet, but they will next month. I HAVE already paid them, they billed me on December 15 and they collected just before Christmas.

    Once again You are accusing me of being dishonest, yet I am the one who is stating everything accurately and truthfully."


    Him: "Also, I am sure your batteries were stolen. Why would you obtained them"

    Clearly I am dealing with an articulate, sincere and honest person

    Me: "This will be my last response, as I can tell that you are projecting on me your own weakness of character. Be careful as your statements if made in a public forum could constitute slander. That might be true with these messages as they are viewable by members of the eBay team. Attached is a copy of the shipping invoice from Sun Joe/Snow Joe dated 11/25/19. They were sent in two USPS trackable packages that I received just days before listing them on eBay. As you can see they were $358 including shipping, so I was already taking a bath on them at $260.

    (probably a little bit of a fib on my part, implying that they cost me, but indirectly I more than paid for them)

    Click image for larger version  Name:	SnowJoe2a.png Views:	0 Size:	54.7 KB ID:	1349975

    Him: "So somehow you defrauded Snow Joe out of two batteries you probably told them were defected. Then you resell them on eBay and keep the two batteries you had that were really fine? I see the other s**t [editing mine] you’re selling, this is the only explanation. My reading skills are fine. I’m an attorney, sue me. Slander? You’re watching too much of Schiff and Pelosi."

    Him again: "I have reported you to Snow Joe so they can check your claim that you didn’t have working batteries for your Snow Joe, but then you put what you defrauded them out of right onto your crappy little Ebay account and sold them"

    I am amazed at how politics invades everything these days. Note that I have nothing on eBay other than relisting these batteries. I will probably pull the listing and move to another sales vehicle.

    I appealed the return to eBay and they told me I had to refund !00% of his money. Then I could appeal it to eBay and they might refund me my shipping costs and they might refund my fees to PayPal. I should call them again after I refund the "gentleman" for them to review the case.

    The purpose of this rather long missive is not to elicit sympathy or to spur action toward eBay. It is just something I found to be both frustrating and enlightening. Sometimes I miss being dealt with as honestly as I deal with others. I guess I grew up in a different time.
    Randy Prade
    Aurora, CO
    Prades.net

    PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

  • #2
    Originally posted by rprade View Post
    Beware of eBay! I thought some of you might enjoy this. The end result is that eBay forced me to fully refund this customer, costing me $$ for no reason.

    At the beginning of December I listed a couple of Batteries for a Snow Joe Snow Blower. These batteries were something I couldn't use or return. They were shipped to me as compensation for a defective product and all the costs I incurred handling it. Snow Joe "screwed the pooch" handling a $960 snow blower that was defective and was a replacement for another defective unit. I paid for the original snow blower in November. A month later and after I listed these batteries, the second replacement arrived. That story is equally ugly and long, but for another day.

    I sold the batteries on Saturday Dec 07, 2019 19:59 PST
    On Monday morning I get a message from the buyer:"I don’t see that you have shipped this yet. I need it for my snow blower and it is going to snow in a week! So if you don’t have it in stock for immediate shipping, please cancel the order"

    I should have known that he was going to be a problem, since I had packaged them on the day before, purchased postage and provided him with tracking information. I replied: "You purchased the item at 9:00PM on Saturday, today is the first day they could have been shipped. I packaged them for shipment yesterday and provided you with a USPS tracking number 9405508699939460776169. The mail has yet to be picked up today, but they are out for pickup. I'm not sure how I could have been any faster."

    His reply was reassuring: "I am very sorry, I’m happy that they are on the way. Sorry, I’m an idiot!"

    The batteries were shipped that monday and delivered the following Monday evening. I have no idea why USPS took a week to deliver a priority mail (3-day) package, but that is beyond my control.

    The next day he requested a return. Reason for return:" Doesn't work or defective".
    In the text of the return he wrote: "Sir, I ordered these as a 2nd set. It snowed Saturday and Sunday and I used my Snow Joe blower for the first time before your batteries arrived. $1000 blower and it was awful. I was leery of a battery operated machine being capable of clearing snow. I was right. Please allow me to mark the unopened package you sent “RETURN TO SENDER”. My sincere apologies."

    Clearly there was nothing wrong with the batteries and clearly he was not being truthful. So much for my wishful thinking he was reasonable. I replied: "I'm sorry, but the item was listed as "Seller does not accept returns". In your request you state that you changed your mind about the purchase, not that there was anything wrong with the items. I am not a retailer, just ian individual selling items on eBay. I have shipping costs, PayPal fees and eBay fees involved in this sale. I cannot accept your return request. I would suggest that you list them on eBay and sell them yourself."

    He replied: "I don’t know if anything is wrong with the item. There could be as the box is in very bad shape. But as I stated, I have not opened the package. If you would like me to open the shipment and evaluate the condition of your item, please instruct me to open and inspect the items. The box has been mishandled"

    So, now that I am rejecting his request for obvious reasons, he decides they might be defective.

    I asked him to send me pictures of the unopened box. He refused
    I asked him to open the box and verify the contents were damaged. He again refused

    I called eBay and they said I had to accept the return, pay the return shipping, then appeal the case when I got them back. I paid about $10 to ship them to him and now had to eat another $10 to get them back. As a side note PayPal charges 3% + $0.30 on the transaction and they no longer refund the fees to the seller on a return. So I am our another ~$7.75. Altogether I paid about $28 in fees and shipping. I also was charged a 10% fee by eBay when they sold. They invoiced me on December 15 and collected $26 on December 23. I will get those fees credited back to my account next month, but I will not get them refunded. The only way I will get them back is to sell more on eBay and use it against future fees. Given this experience, I will be hard pressed to deal with eBay ever again.

    Now I received the return yesterday. As I suspected, there was no damage to the box other than two slightly dented corners on the shipping box. The contents were perfect.

    I contacted eBay again and they stated I should offer a partial refund to the customer. By now I am realizing that this guy was skilled at working eBay and that I would lose. Nevertheless I sent a message yesterday: "I received the items today. Because the items were listed and sold as non returnable and there was nothing wrong with the items, I will be issuing a refund for the item, minus a restocking fee to cover PayPal fees, shipping and return shipping of $26.00. A refund of $234 will be issued within 3 business days"

    I knew this was going to be difficult, but this exchange was so ridiculous as to not be believed:

    Him: "I will fight this out with EBay. Restocking fee, I don’t think so. The box was damaged. Never open batteries that are possibly damaged. Your complaint is with the post office not me. I didn’t damage the item. If you proceed I will spell it out on feedback for you. You are not an honest person"

    Me: "It is interesting that you accuse me of dishonesty. When you initiated the return request You stated that the item "Doesn't work or defective". That clearly was not true since in that return request you wrote: "Sir, I ordered these as a 2nd set. It snowed Saturday and Sunday and I used my Snow Joe blower for the first time before your batteries arrived. $1000 blower and it was awful. I was leery of a battery operated machine being capable of clearing snow. I was right. Please allow me to mark the unopened package you sent “RETURN TO SENDER”. My sincere apologies."

    Clearly when you requested the return you were returning them because you changed your mind. You only mentioned the damage to the box after I reminded you that the product was sold without the option of returning it. You were unwilling to open or inspect the items which are in perfectly perfectly good condition. When I received the box back it had a small dent on two corners, certainly not substantial damage at all. I would have been willing to accept the return if the product was damaged and could have filed a claim with the USPS if damage were incurred. No such damage exists as you can see in the attached pictures.

    Please explain to me how you feel it is fair for me to spend more than the amount I am charging you in PayPal fees and round trip shipping when you simply changed your mind. You accuse me of dealing in bad faith and of dishonesty. You are projecting, because it is you who misrepresented that state of the items and refused to open them and inspect them. I have been fair and honest with you, only asking that you live up to the terms of the sale that were clearly stated at the time you purchased the batteries. I also have already paid Ebay 10% in sellers fees which are above and beyond the amounts outlined above. Those fees will likely be refunded next month as a credit, but I am still out the shipping and PayPal fees. Your actions caused me to miss the Christmas selling"


    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_1958.jpg Views:	0 Size:	125.0 KB ID:	1349976Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_1960.jpg Views:	0 Size:	151.4 KB ID:	1349977

    Him: "Sir, you are being dishonest. Ebay refunded your 10% charge"

    Me: "Your reading comprehension is poor. I wrote: "I also have already paid Ebay 10% in sellers fees which are above and beyond the amounts outlined above. Those fees will likely be refunded next month as a credit, but I am still out the shipping and PayPal fees." They have not refunded them yet, but they will next month. I HAVE already paid them, they billed me on December 15 and they collected just before Christmas.

    Once again You are accusing me of being dishonest, yet I am the one who is stating everything accurately and truthfully."


    Him: "Also, I am sure your batteries were stolen. Why would you obtained them"

    Clearly I am dealing with an articulate, sincere and honest person

    Me: "This will be my last response, as I can tell that you are projecting on me your own weakness of character. Be careful as your statements if made in a public forum could constitute slander. That might be true with these messages as they are viewable by members of the eBay team. Attached is a copy of the shipping invoice from Sun Joe/Snow Joe dated 11/25/19. They were sent in two USPS trackable packages that I received just days before listing them on eBay. As you can see they were $358 including shipping, so I was already taking a bath on them at $260.

    (probably a little bit of a fib on my part, implying that they cost me, but indirectly I more than paid for them)

    Click image for larger version  Name:	SnowJoe2a.png Views:	0 Size:	54.7 KB ID:	1349975

    Him: "So somehow you defrauded Snow Joe out of two batteries you probably told them were defected. Then you resell them on eBay and keep the two batteries you had that were really fine? I see the other s**t [editing mine] you’re selling, this is the only explanation. My reading skills are fine. I’m an attorney, sue me. Slander? You’re watching too much of Schiff and Pelosi."

    Him again: "I have reported you to Snow Joe so they can check your claim that you didn’t have working batteries for your Snow Joe, but then you put what you defrauded them out of right onto your crappy little Ebay account and sold them"

    I am amazed at how politics invades everything these days. Note that I have nothing on eBay other than relisting these batteries. I will probably pull the listing and move to another sales vehicle.

    I appealed the return to eBay and they told me I had to refund !00% of his money. Then I could appeal it to eBay and they might refund me my shipping costs and they might refund my fees to PayPal. I should call them again after I refund the "gentleman" for them to review the case.

    The purpose of this rather long missive is not to elicit sympathy or to spur action toward eBay. It is just something I found to be both frustrating and enlightening. Sometimes I miss being dealt with as honestly as I deal with others. I guess I grew up in a different time.
    Wow. Ebay drives me nuts...I never sell there anymore, and only buy the small random thing I can't find elsewhere.

    As a side note, we've had much better luck selling things locally with Facebook marketplace. I was actually a bit surprised, but it's a much better experience.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm so sorry to read this story. I can't believe there is people like this.
      This is sad!

      Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

      Comment


      • #4
        I've done OK with a Craigs listing a couple of times purchasing and selling.

        I am currently dealing with an Ebay purchase that I want to return and get a refund for.

        It's just a motherboard sold as an open box like new, never used, never touched. Seller did post no refunds. There is an issue with the motherboard video (works only sometimes) so it is worthless to me. Historically I would have just eaten the cost to take a chance. Been back and forth with the seller to reach some sort of agreement either shipping it back or getting a percentage or credit for purchase I consider a brick or shipping me a replacement.

        Initially went to Ebay and per messages they told me to reach out to seller and if I am not satisfied they will take care of me sending me a prepaid return postage label and crediting me for the purchase.
        - Pete

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        • #5
          It just gets better and better.

          Him:"I just talked to Snow Joe and their security department did confirm that they sent you two new batteries (that you turned around and sold on eBay) because you made a fraudulent claim for replacement. You are a great scammer"

          I already sent him a refund.

          For grins I emailed my contact at Sun Joe. He immediately wrote back that he was unaware they had a "security department". He said they had an internal security team, but that they would not be talking to a customer on the phone. He also said if someone did track down the order for a random individual calling in that it would point to the one who generated it and would know it was a customer accomodation order. They also would not ever confirm any customer's information, order status, etc. to an outside party as it would leave them very vulnerable.
          Randy Prade
          Aurora, CO
          Prades.net

          PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

          Comment


          • #6
            He seems to live a lawless life, gets what he wants, screw the little guy. Maybe I watch too much CNN.
            Sorry you went thru this Randy.
            Blair

            HomeSeer: HS3 Pro 3.0.0.548
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            • #7
              Originally posted by BlairG View Post
              He seems to live a lawless life, gets what he wants, screw the little guy. Maybe I watch too much CNN.
              Sorry you went thru this Randy.
              He lives in a very nice 3-car garage house on a cul de sac. Me not so much

              I sleep very well at night. I've lived my life where my word is golden with integrity and ethics above all. I can only hope that Karma catches up with him sometime. It usually does and probably has. He probably has no idea why he is so miserable.

              It is really not about the money. I've spent more time communicating with this bonehead than it is worth, but for some reason this whole thing really bothers me. Probably because it is reflective of the times. We are teaching our children that winning is more important than honesty.
              Randy Prade
              Aurora, CO
              Prades.net

              PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

              Comment


              • #8
                I used to sell a lot on Ebay; not any more. A few bad eggs like this spoiled that gig a long time ago.
                Now it's Kijiji (face to face transactions) or I give my excess away, generally to charity yard sales
                Real courage is not securing your Wi-Fi network.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Now you know why they call it FleaBay. There's a ton of turds on this site and it's only getting worse. The sad thing is Amazon is rapidly moving in the same direction.
                  -Rupp
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'll add more...

                    Even though he has received a refund, he has continued sending abusive, profanity laced messages. I have received 4 more since the one above, One last night and three more today. It is interesting that he won, yet he wants to continue to try to punish me. I reported him to eBay, so they should stop. eBay knows if they don't stop him, they will be complicit in facilitating harassment. I did get a kick out of one of them, edited of profanity. This was in response to a simple message I sent him "Leave me alone". Here it is:

                    "Write a novel, you like to talk way too much. I’ll bet this is the FBI profile on you. Tell me how much is correct. Your short, self conscious, divorced, on government assistance, drive a vehicle made in the 1990’s, have a s***ty job or no job, and have no friends and no life. You might even live with mommy and spend 14 hours a day online?"

                    He nailed me

                    I suppose I'll shrink into a corner in my mom's basement and cry
                    Randy Prade
                    Aurora, CO
                    Prades.net

                    PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OMG... he takes this to no end.
                      HS3PRO 3.0.0.500 as a Fire Daemon service, Windows 2016 Server Std Intel Core i5 PC HTPC Slim SFF 4GB, 120GB SSD drive, WLG800, RFXCom, TI103,NetCam, UltraNetcam3, BLBackup, CurrentCost 3P Rain8Net, MCsSprinker, HSTouch, Ademco Security plugin/AD2USB, JowiHue, various Oregon Scientific temp/humidity sensors, Z-Net, Zsmoke, Aeron Labs micro switches, Amazon Echo Dots, WS+, WD+ ... on and on.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by langenet View Post
                        OMG... he takes this to no end.
                        It is a little disturbing. eBay has not stopped him yet either. He sent two more since the above. The latest one:

                        "I just finished an interview with Law Enforcement regarding what they say may include mail fraud. You really shouldn’t mess with someone with deep law enforcement ties and two FBI agents that are my close friends"

                        I'm so worried
                        Randy Prade
                        Aurora, CO
                        Prades.net

                        PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rprade View Post
                          He lives in a very nice 3-car garage house on a cul de sac. Me not so much

                          I sleep very well at night. I've lived my life where my word is golden with integrity and ethics above all. I can only hope that Karma catches up with him sometime. It usually does and probably has. He probably has no idea why he is so miserable.

                          It is really not about the money. I've spent more time communicating with this bonehead than it is worth, but for some reason this whole thing really bothers me. Probably because it is reflective of the times. We are teaching our children that winning is more important than honesty.
                          And so - karma will do him in. I've lived long enough to see it happen. .
                          Well - not necessarily 100 percent sure it was really "karma" but...

                          People who would behave like that - after giving up their info / address are a special breed.
                          Just begging for some unbalanced person (not you Randy of course) to show up on their doorstep - thus proving they have resources beyond their expectation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well... My wife is worried that he is the unbalanced person - he clearly is. He has my address.

                            Interestingly enough, I will be watching football with a local Chief of Detectives and a criminal defense attorney tomorrow. One of my best friends was with the Secret Service, before he went to one of those 3 letter organizations. This guy’s name and full address might come up in conversations I am of a certain age and have a fair amount of life experiences and this poor soul has no idea who I am or who I know.

                            Oh wait, I forgot - I have no friends.
                            Randy Prade
                            Aurora, CO
                            Prades.net

                            PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rprade View Post
                              Well... My wife is worried that he is the unbalanced person - he clearly is. He has my address.

                              Interestingly enough, I will be watching football with a local Chief of Detectives and a criminal defense attorney tomorrow. One of my best friends was with the Secret Service, before he went to one of those 3 letter organizations. This guy’s name and full address might come up in conversations I am of a certain age and have a fair amount of life experiences and this poor soul has no idea who I am or who I know.

                              Oh wait, I forgot - I have no friends.
                              Well...not entirely true.... All of us online friends you spend 14 hours a day with

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