Strange question regarding Alexa skill controlling Homeseer Insteon Devices

[skozin]

Hello:

I want to use Alexa to control a device when an insteon device turns on. So I tried to create a routine, I name the routine, then when I go to "When this happens" which I thought I should click "Smart Home" and all of my Insteon Devices would be there, however they are not. The only devices there are my Tuya enabled devices. In the "Add action" section I click "Smart Home" All of the Insteon devices are there. What am I doing wrong? Is there a certain way to do this?

Thanks in advance,
Steve

[Kevb]

You're not doing anything wrong. Alexa only uses certain devices to start routines. For me, it sees my smart locks, Ring cameras and Hue devices. I am not sure why the other devices in HS are not seen. If you are using Node-red, you can build a flow to have a device in Homeseer start an alexa routine.

[skozin]

Does anyone know a workaround in making this work?

[TC1]

There's a lot of confusion and misinformation in the various HS forums as to how this skill works. In the end, it really doesn't matter what brand or type of device it is in the physical world, what matters is the device abstraction in the HS software.

What I mean by that is the software controls make up the device representation in HS, For example, if I have a Zigbee smart bulb that has the HS color-picker control in it like this:


Then when I run a discovery in Alexa, it adds a color bulb with the capabilities for me to say "Alexa make office desk light red".

The same would go for Insteon devices like dimmers and switches, this skill is only limited to certain device classes with certain controls.

What is recognized by this skill are On, Off, and slider controls (0 to 100%). So if you have an HS device that looks like this:


Then Alexa will make a corresponding device on its end that will allow On, Off, and dim level. You can say "Alexa make bathroom light 65 percent".

Now... the problem occurs when the HS device model does not look like above... meaning that Off is not represented by 0 and On is some value beyond 100. Same for the dimming range. In my color bulb example, I can adjust the color, on, off, or dim level, BUT I can't adjust the color temperature value because that numerical number is beyond 100.

There should be some kind of mapping that allows numerical device values beyond 100, but when I pointed this out I got silence from HST.

So to conclude, when trying to discover a device for Alexa voice control using this skill, you need to verify that the device representation in HS has typical controls like above and that the control values are in the range of 0 to 100.

The other Alexa skill that requires "Alexa, tell Homeseer to do this..." will work with any device because the command parsing is done on the HS side rathe then the Alexa side, which gives a lot more flexibility.

[Kevb]

The OP's devices are discovered and can be controlled, they just aren't seen as a "When this happens..." smart home device in order to start an Alexa Routine. For some reason this list is different (smaller than) the Discovered devices list.
A possible workaround would be to use an event to have the Insteon device turn on a Tuya device (maybe put one in a hidden location?) and have the Tuya device start the Alexa routine. The Tuya device would basically be a bridge between Insteon/HS and Alexa.

[skozin]

As Kevb states: It is not showing in the part "When This happens". All of my devices are there in the Actions section, but it would be ideal that I could use my insteon device in the correct area (Just like how Homeseer works) so I can create a routine to turn a different device on or say something based on that specific device going on or off. Using a bridge would sort of work but I think it defeats the purpose of using Alexa.

My simple example would be the following:

I want to turn off a light using the Smarthome section "When this Happens" when another Insteon device turns off. Insteon Bedroom Lights (Switch #1)

Insteon Closet Lights (Switch #2) Turn Off

Speak Closet lights just turned off.

Should be simple but not with the Alexa app if the devices aren't in the correct area.

[TC1]

Another alternative which I recommend is to not have the automation logic in Alexa/Amazon. Is the need to have the routine in Alexa because the devices to be controlled are not in HS already?

A possible workaround would be to use an event to have the Insteon device turn on a Tuya device (maybe put one in a hidden location?) and have the Tuya device start the Alexa routine. The Tuya device would basically be a bridge between Insteon/HS and Alexa.

Even easier is just create a virtual device in HS with an On/Off control. Alexa definitely discovers those. You could then link the Insteon device to the VD either directly or through an event.

[skozin]

Another alternative which I recommend is to not have the automation logic in Alexa/Amazon. Is the need to have the routine in Alexa because the devices to be controlled are not in HS already?

The devices are in homeseer.

I think it would be easier to announce something on the echo speakers in my house rather than trying to make them announce thru homeseer. With the routine method in Alexa, it should be simple if the insteon devices were in that certain section.

[Kevb]

The devices are in homeseer.

I think it would be easier to announce something on the echo speakers in my house rather than trying to make them announce thru homeseer. With the routine method in Alexa, it should be simple if the insteon devices were in that certain section.

For announcements, I use Node-red. It works very well and is fairly easy. I have very little to no programming experience. Others are using Jon00's Voice Monkey. There's no direct way for Alexa announcements with Homeseer.

[TC1]

The devices are in homeseer.

I think it would be easier to announce something on the echo speakers in my house rather than trying to make them announce thru homeseer. With the routine method in Alexa, it should be simple if the insteon devices were in that certain section.

Again, then create and link VD device clones of your Insteon devices, import the VDs into Alexa. You should then be able to run your routines from Alexa when your Insteon devices change.

But I agree with Kevb, there are many ways to get Homeseer to announce through Alexa or Google Home, and it's better to keep all your home automation logic in HS. Alexa routines are useful for people who don't have a home automation platform engine.

[Sgt. Shultz]

Now... the problem occurs when the HS device model does not look like above... meaning that Off is not represented by 0 and On is some value beyond 100. Same for the dimming range. In my color bulb example, I can adjust the color, on, off, or dim level, BUT I can't adjust the color temperature value because that numerical number is beyond 100.

While the range of 0 to 100 is preferred, it is not required. Alexa can't be given a range value, just a brightness 'trait', so when it is sent to us it is either an absolute value (set the bulb to 40 percent), or a delta (brighten the bulb by 10 percent), but in either case the range sent to us is 0 to 100. We then have to look up the range values for the device (and if the delta the current value) and due a value conversion with the percentage value to send back. A 0 to 100 range is just a better conversion then say a 3 to 255 range as the device value, but both should work. (Z-wave devices tend to have a 255 range by default)

[TC1]

While the range of 0 to 100 is preferred, it is not required. Alexa can't be given a range value, just a brightness 'trait', so when it is sent to us it is either an absolute value (set the bulb to 40 percent), or a delta (brighten the bulb by 10 percent), but in either case the range sent to us is 0 to 100. We then have to look up the range values for the device (and if the delta the current value) and due a value conversion with the percentage value to send back. A 0 to 100 range is just a better conversion then say a 3 to 255 range as the device value, but both should work. (Z-wave devices tend to have a 255 range by default)

Again, I reiterate that the HS Alexa device model implementation is limited, I brought this up with you in another thread. White Color Temperature child devices are looking for values such as 2400 to 5000 (k). Percentage is non-intuitive in this use case, same as if I said adjust the thermostat to 50% (thankfully the use case values for most thermostats are less then 100).

Yet somehow other smart bulb manufactures have Alexa skills that allows one to adjust the WCT.

[Sgt. Shultz]

I was addressing the dimming values, rather then the color temperature. The color temp would need a new control use to signify it for discovery. I would suggest creating a ticket for it.

[JimSpy]

Place a speaker client speaker next to an Echo. Then create the following....

EVENT HS to Alexa
IF [an Insteon device] changes and becomes ON
THEN Speak "Alexa"
Wait 3
Speak "Turn on [another Insteon Device]"

Well? It would work, right?