WiFi & Router Recommendation?

[NickTheGreat]

Ugh. I'm here now. I've had my cable provider out 3 or 4 times this year now. First they amp'd my signal. Helped my TV.

Then they said my underground line was bad (chewed thru actually_. He ran it and no dice. His new modem fixed it, though. I find it hard to believe that the line and my modem died on the same day, but . . .

So I have to buy another. My old one was only 3 or 4 years old now.

Is the SB6141 the one to get? Or is this a newer/better model.

[Pete]

What would happen if i plugged in another wireless router into the all-in-one gateway I have now?

I did that with my Verizon FIOS router as it was a piece of crap by bridging the network port to the modem piece or putting the network port I needed in to a DMZ.
Recall that a wireless combination router has both a WAN port and LAN ports. The firewall sits between the WAN and the LAN port.

The choices you have are:

1 - use the combo router as your primary combo router bridging a port such that all of the internet traffic going to your second router.
2 - user the combo router as an access point connecting the network interface on the second router to the network interface on your ISP router

[Pete]

Is the SB6141 the one to get? Or is this a newer/better model.

Personally I got the SB6141 when it was first available.

It is a 8X4 channel modem. You have to ask a technician that works for your ISP to see how many channels are available where you live.

Or go to the ISP forum. Here I get more support from the forum moderators than a phone call to Comcast.

Here is the 8X4 channels and signal strengths.

[ATTACH]62529[/ATTACH]

From DSL Reports:

Downstream (Rx) Receive Power Level:
This is the amount of signal received by the modem from the transmitter in the cable company head-end.

For all modems DOCSIS 3.0 / 3.1:

-7 dBmV to +7 dBmV "Recommended"
-8 dBmV to -10 dBmV / +8 dBmV to +10 dBmV - "Acceptable"
-11 dBmV to -15 dBmV / +11 dBmV to +15 dBmV - "Maximum"
Lower than -15 dBmV & Higher than +15 dBmV - "Out Of Spec."

SNR (signal to noise ratio) levels:
This is how clear the signal is at either the modem receiver (downstream SNR) or the receiver in the cable company head-end (upstream SNR).

DOCSIS specifications list minimum CNR (carrier to noise ratio) levels not SNR levels. The SNR levels listed here are based on commonly recommended MER levels for digital cable signals. Not all QAM demodulator chipsets accurately calculate SNR levels that approximate actual MER levels, so these levels may vary depending on which chipset and/or firmware is used in the equipment.

*There is no upper SNR limit.

For all modems DOCSIS 3.0 / 3.1:

256 QAM: 30 dB minimum. 33 dB or higher recommended.
64 QAM: 24 dB minimum. 27 dB or higher recommended.
16 QAM: 18 dB minimum. 21 dB or higher recommended.
QPSK: 12 dB minimum. 15 dB or higher recommended.

Downstream SNR levels are read at the modem on the downstream data channel and can be viewed using the modem diagnostic screens.

Upstream SNR levels are read at the CMTS on the upstream data channel, not the modem or the modem diagnostic screens. The end-user cannot get the upstream SNR directly. Only the provider can read the upstream SNR level, directly from the CMTS. Also, the upstream SNR level provided by most CMTSs is not specific to any single modem, but is an averaged, aggregate level from all modems on that upstream channel on the upstream port.

Upstream (Tx) Transmit Power (a.k.a. Return Signal) level:
This is the amount of signal transmitted by the modem to reach the receiver in the cable company head-end.

*Recommended Upstream signal levels are +35 dBmV to +47 dBmV (DOCSIS 3.1)
*Recommended Upstream signal levels are +35 dBmV to +49 dBmV (DOCSIS 3.0)

50 dBmV maximum for SC-QAM (DOCSIS 3.1)
52 dBmV maximum for A-TDMA & TDMA (DOCSIS 3.0)
53 dBmV maximum for S-CDMA DOCSIS 2.0 (All Modulations)
54 dBmV maximum for 32 QAM and 64 QAM. (A-TDMA DOCSIS 2.0)
55 dBmV maximum for 8 QAM and 16 QAM. (DOCSIS 1.0, 1.1)
58 dBmV maximum for QPSK. (DOCSIS 1.0, 1.1)

A cable modem running a higher upstream modulation rate may downgrade itself to a lower modulation rate (i.e. 64 QAM to 16 QAM or 16 QAM to QPSK) if the upstream transmit level is higher than the maximum signal level allowed for the higher modulation rate and the CMTS is configured to allow such a change. This downgrade can cause slow speed, packet loss, and connection loss issues depending on the condition of the upstream channel.

A house or drop amplifier will NOT fix an upstream signal problem because most house amplifiers don't amplify the upstream signals; they only pass the upstream signal through with some loss.

Important notes concerning signal levels:

1. Signal levels not within the specifications listed above can cause slow speeds, connection problems, and connection loss due to packet errors, packet loss, and/or constant packet re-transmission.

2. It's recommended to have the modem's signal levels at least 3dB away from the maximum/minimum levels listed above due to normal temperature related signal variation. If the modem's signal levels are at the maximum or minimum limits, they may be out of spec. if the temperature changes significantly. Signal levels that vary more then 3 dB in a 24-hour period usually indicate a problem that should be looked into.

3. Excess splits, bad connectors, and/or poor quality cabling will certainly effect cable signal levels and will cause problems.




I have read now that it doesn't do that well with speeds above 200Mbs. The changes in the head end diplexers are not close as CC will probably not want to spend the money right away.

Here Comcast on their own ran new cable for me. (300 feet plus). They came unannounced and that sort of PO'd me. He just dropped the new cable the long way on my lawn, tested it to work (I helped). When he left I reran the cable (newer and much thicker than the old cable) under my deck. It took 3 months for CC to bury the cable.

I personally didn't see much of a change in the signal strength going to the newer cable.

Now that you have a new cable run and for time bean an SB6141 should do the job. The modem works or doesn't work. It's all related to your signal strength on the cable.

That said you can even purchase a used one for probably $20.

[Kerat]

WiFi & Router Recommendation?

Ugh. I'm here now. I've had my cable provider out 3 or 4 times this year now. First they amp'd my signal. Helped my TV.



Then they said my underground line was bad (chewed thru actually_. He ran it and no dice. His new modem fixed it, though. I find it hard to believe that the line and my modem died on the same day, but . . .



So I have to buy another. My old one was only 3 or 4 years old now.



Is the SB6141 the one to get? Or is this a newer/better model.

I had a sb6141 for a while. It worked well for me while I had it. The Sb6141 is a 8x4 uplink/downlink. New models will have more channels and thus support higher speeds and provide proper throughout even if you have a lot of neighbors with cable.

Currently I have a sb6190 that support up to 32x8 uplink/downlink channels. I love this modem. This modem works well for me because I get to bond more channels (use more than 1 channel simultaneously), my local Comcast supports up to 24x4 uplink/downlink channels.

Also, DOCSIS 3.1 Is beginning to become adopted. Comcast has already stated that in order to get gigabit speeds you will need DOCSIS 3.1. Of course that will likely increase the cost of the modem and service.

I would recommend checking with your cable provider to see how many uplink/downlink channels they support. Then pick up a modem that has just a little bit more than that (future proofing).


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[Kerat]

WiFi & Router Recommendation?

What would happen if i plugged in another wireless router into the all-in-one gateway I have now?



I am assuming that would not work but thought I should ask before buying a modem and wireless router to make things modular.

So, it can work, it is called a double NAT. It tends to cause problems for novice users.

rules:
1. each router uses dissimilar subnets. Example:

Comcast gateway IP 192.168.1.1
subnet 192.168.1.0/24
addressable between 192.168.1.2-192.168.1.254

2nd router IP 192.168.2.1
subnet 192.168.2.0/24
addressable between 192.168.2.2-192.168.2.254

2. Then you would need to ensure that the 2nd router receives a dhcp reserved IP (or static IP address) address from the Comcast gateway, (in the Comcast gateway's subnet). That IP addressneeds to be placed in the DMZ zone of the Comcast gateway (this means the Comcast gateway does not firewall operations on this up address). This ensures that you don't have to setup firewall configs for opening ports, NAT'g etc.

3. Then you would disable wifi on the Comcast gateway.

4. Note that all devices then have to be connected to the 2nd router and not the comcast gateway. The reason for this is that there won't be a route between 192.168.1.0/24 and 192.168.2.0/24. Most SOHO/HOME routers don't have the ability to setup OSPF of a static router between the two subnets. So, for example, communication won't work if you had your computer connected to the 2nd router and your printer connected to the Comcast gateway.

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[randy]

I made a switch to Cisco managed switches, and a TP-Link Docsis 3.0 modem last year, a pfSense firewall/router and Ubiquiti APs early this year and couldn't be happier. Before switching to pfSense and Ubiquiti, I had a Nighthawk R7000 which was a very reliable and powerful device. I have lots of friends running Nighthawk R7000 and R9000 routers who remain very happy with their overall performance.

This is wireless over a Ubiquiti AP 2.4GHZ



This is wireless over a Ubiquiti AP 5GHZ



And this is a wired connection



Comcast caps uploads at 12Mbps. Since switching modem and APs the speeds are nearly the same every time I check. Our connection has been up 100% since switching router and Modem. With the Nighthawk and a Motorola (Docsis 3.0) modem, my results were occasionally near these speeds, but it was inconsistent. It would also require an occasional reboot of the modem and router to restore Internet. The modem and router would quit communicating, but the modem showed to be connected to the cable carrier. I don't remember it happening again after getting the new modem.

I have never used Comcast's leased modems and every one I encountered in the field was crap. You also get the "benefit" of providing guest access to your Internet connection to every Comcast customer within range. I can connect to two of my neighbors.

[waynehead99]

One thing to remember about Cable modems (modem only, not router combo), you can only get 1 IP address. So you can't directly connect 2 routers to the modem... unless it has a router built in. You would be creating a separate subnet. You'd be double nat'd but for testing and learning, shouldn't be a big deal unless you're opening ports.

So yea you would need to stack routers to do what I was suggesting earlier.

[Pete]

Here is a public list someone started on DSL reports dot com.

[Signals] Report 16, 24 & 32 Downstream Channel Bonding Here

@Kerat...thanks for the info on the SB6190...looks like here 24 Downstream channels are supported. Ordering an SB6190 today...

Personally here do not like that Comcast is building their free WiFi (for Comcast customers) on everybody's leased combo boxes....it a cheap way to do it which works for Comcast.

[Kerat]

Here is a public list someone started on DSL reports dot com.

[Signals] Report 16, 24 & 32 Downstream Channel Bonding Here

@Kerat...thanks for the info on the SB6190...looks like here 24 Downstream channels are supported. Ordering an SB6190 today...

Personally here do not like that Comcast is building their free WiFi (for Comcast customers) on everybody's leased combo boxes....it a cheap way to do it which works for Comcast.

Glad to be of service.


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[Kerat]

WiFi & Router Recommendation?

I have never used Comcast's leased modems and every one I encountered in the field was crap. You also get the "benefit" of providing guest access to your Internet connection to every Comcast customer within range. I can connect to two of my neighbors.

Personally here do not like that Comcast is building their free WiFi (for Comcast customers) on everybody's leased combo boxes....it a cheap way to do it which works for Comcast.

Completely agreed, high recurring cost of leasing, poor grade refurb hardware, and having to share bandwidth I pay a premium for are what drove me away from leasing modems.

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[NickTheGreat]

Thanks fellas. I'll dig around a bit and see how many channels and what sort of service is even possible. I think I'm paying for 40 or 60 mbps and their modem is absolute junk!

My SB6121 was nice, shame it died on me

[Mountainman]

Personally here do not like that Comcast is building their free WiFi (for Comcast customers) on everybody's leased combo boxes....it a cheap way to do it which works for Comcast.

Yeah, that's very undesirable. Personally I would take any modem/router that is proprietary to the cable/DSL vendor and put it in bridge mode (does not route). Run your own router as a firewall where you have control. ISP's have a history of logging into their customer modems they lease and changing things which aren't necessarily improvements for the end user. They have security holes that don't get patched (Alcatel in France years ago). They can very easily monitor and gate any traffic at this point. The leased modems have a history of being designed as low-cost which has translated to unreliable ("sir, please press the red reset button any time your internet connection stops working"). If you run in bridge mode, you are using a subset of the capabilities which theoretically increases the chances of it working reliably.

I ran Cisco small business routers (not any Linksys products which Cisco purchased; the stock Linksys products were marginal) since the 90's and had uptimes as long as 1.5 years before I rebooted for an IOS upgrade. However, Cisco isn't a viable alternative for a SOHO router these days in my opinion because they simply aren't targeting that market any longer.

[Mr_Resistor]

FWIW, I run SonicWALL TZ600 for the router, Motorola 8200 Docsis 3.1 Modem (gig speed Comcast connection, regularly see 900+ down and 42+ up) and 4 Ubiquiti HD APs. Swtiching is all Netgear managed (some being swapped with Ubiquity POE switches. All is working well. Stable and fast.

- Jim -

[Planetview]

I installed the new modem and wireless router this week. I went from 4.6 Mbps with the Comcast gateway to 88 Mbps for wireless (91 Mbps for Ethernet connection).

Yeaaaa, thanks for the help and suggestions everyone!

[waynehead99]

That's awesome. It's nice when the network is working properly. I know it makes me feel gitty.