Homeseer Seems Not Ready :(

[logbuilder]

@larrywal32

I'm not going to try to compare or debate different HA systems. However, if you want to talk to a very satisfied HomeSeer user, send me a PM. I'm a retired tech guy (AMZN) in the Seattle area. I'd be happy to help you getting started. We could get together if that makes sense.

[mrhappy]

Thanks folks - I guess one thing that got me pretty down was that I don't feel like I have a solid understanding of the system structure.

I read the manual cover to cover (except for the API references - that's for later) -- but just figuring out how to uninstall the Sonos plugin was a multi-hour affair. (Turns out according to Dirk, a MultipleInstanceSingleEXE cannot be removed from the UI, you have to know to go to the HomeSeer directory and delete the .ini file)

That doesn't seem to be documented anywhere. I guess I would feel comfortable tinkering if I felt like I had an understanding of the basics of adding and removing not just devices but plugins and state. Which would also allow me confidence of backing things up.

After many hours I think I figured out that:
a) The program files HS3 directory should be backed up and replaced fully and everything should be fully restored.
b) deleting a plugin is deleting the .ini file (though I don't understand what happens to its devices if you do that?)

I guess it's tough for me to rationalize what y'all are saying - that it's a robust, stable platform.....and yet basic stuff like the above isn't documented in the manual. Unless I missed it of course.

The manual is not as in depth as it was for HS2 and I guess time precludes any ability to generate a full comprehensive manual.

Just to manage your expectations when it comes to plugin un-installation there is no real stock way, I'm not convinced that the 'x' in the plugin management page removes everything to do with the plugin (when you install it you likely install dependencies/graphics that the plugin needs) so then there may be files like ini files that need to be removed if you want to completely remove all traces. Different plugin authors adopt different approaches which I appreciate does not help with respect to devices, some may store references in ini files, some may store data in the devices themselves, some may store them in any other way. You are best asking in the authors forum if you need clarification.

With respect to UI complaints you will find few who are completely satisfied with the UI but I think HS's development capacity is limited and I would sooner have a poor UI and a stable engine than the other way around.

[larrywal32]

Thank you so much all. It does give me hope and I appreciate the outpouring.

I'm still struggling with uninstalling plugins and figuring out what I should clean up / how to make sure I'm back to a good state, and whether my backup assumptions are right (I understand I can use BLBackup; but for something this basic I need to understand roughly how it actually works to be able to trust it; even something as simple as if I install Homeseer on a new PC, how do I migrate my settings there and what is happening file/registry-wise under the covers).

Will PM those of you who mentioned that - really appreciate the offer.

[norcalhkr]

Thank you so much all. It does give me hope and I appreciate the outpouring.



I'm still struggling with uninstalling plugins and figuring out what I should clean up / how to make sure I'm back to a good state, and whether my backup assumptions are right (I understand I can use BLBackup; but for something this basic I need to understand roughly how it actually works to be able to trust it; even something as simple as if I install Homeseer on a new PC, how do I migrate my settings there and what is happening file/registry-wise under the covers).



Will PM those of you who mentioned that - really appreciate the offer.

For what it is worth, had to get a new machine recently and migrated HS3 in less than 2 hours start to finish with testing... really painless overall.

[S-F]

Backup and restore is easy! Use BLBackup. When you want to restore just make sure HS3 isn't running and you dump the entire contents of the backup over your HS3 folder overwriting everything. Simple. Same goes for moving to a new system. Install HS3 and dump the backup over the new install.

[langenet]

Thank you so much all. It does give me hope and I appreciate the outpouring.

I'm still struggling with uninstalling plugins and figuring out what I should clean up / how to make sure I'm back to a good state, and whether my backup assumptions are right (I understand I can use BLBackup; but for something this basic I need to understand roughly how it actually works to be able to trust it; even something as simple as if I install Homeseer on a new PC, how do I migrate my settings there and what is happening file/registry-wise under the covers).

Will PM those of you who mentioned that - really appreciate the offer.

I believe BLBackup uses Windows native FileIO. You can either configure it to zip of the HS3 directory and specify a destination for that or you can configure it to use the directory tree and essentially copy the entire directory tree of HS3 to a different path. I use is the directory tree to another drive I keep 15 copies of the backup. If I need a file or more, I just explore that destination tree for what I'm looking for. I have it e-mail a report after each backup. Here's an example of last nights backup:

Backup Log for 11/26/2017 12:45:00 AM


** Backup process (Folder Tree - FULL) has STARTED at 11/26/2017 12:45:00 AM...

Processing backup directory: C:\Program Files (X86)\HomeSeer HS3 ( Frequency: Daily; Include Sub Dirs: Yes )
Computer Name: NS; Unique Alias:
Comment: Daily Backups
Number of backups to keep: 15
Folder Tree: F:\HomeSeer3_BCK\NS\Daily\HomeSeerHS3_DAILY_2017-11-11_00-45-00 was DELETED
5,493 files were processed
0 files in use
1 folder trees deleted
Backup time: 30 mins, 1 secs

** Backup process (Folder Tree - FULL) has COMPLETED at 11/26/2017 1:15:01 AM

** Backup process took 30 mins, 1 secs to complete!

Total backup directories processed: 1
Total files processed: 5,493
Total files backed up: 5,493
Total files in use: 0
Total old backup logs deleted: 1
Total folder trees deleted: 1


Robert

[mkaplan1]

EX-SmartThings user new to HS3

There have been a number of good points on both sides so I figured I could add a few of my own.

I went to HS from ST because I was looking for stability with my ZWave network and the reliability that local processing gives you.

The tools to repair / analyze the zwave network is light years beyond ST and it was the first step in increasing my WAF. On the negative side, I've had to restart / reboot my ZNet adapter a few too many times. I get that blank stare from HS support when I question why.

My ZEL Pro crashed for no reason Saturday night which required a system restore. I was happy that I just did a configuration backup. Or not. I'm not sure if the Configuration Backup even backs up Events. Anyone?

There's a ton of information on this forum and yes, I've been to the How to pages and the Youtube video's but my feeling is that most of the issues that a person like me has were discussed years ago and are deep in the archives.

I liked the ST community. I found them very helpful (No digs here). Maybe it was that the ST community was new and I happened to get in at the time when discovery was happening and being actively discussed. Maybe because the scope of ST and the scope of HS are very different. The apps (plug-ins) for programming and creating HMI was very intuitive and flexible. Maybe that's a plus to the cloud.

In the end, I'm not sure if HS supports their product or just creates one and leaves support to the Forum.

Regards,
Mark Kaplan

[Uncle Michael]

In the end, I'm not sure if HS supports their product or just creates one and leaves support to the Forum.

This is a really insightful question. As a relatively long-term user of HS, I know that HST does support their product, but it's a very complex product, with an even more complex operating environment that is (mostly) out of the control of HST.

For me, it seems appropriate to think of HS as a tool for intermediate level technically adroit people to create their own 'smart' home systems, where the level of 'smart' varies dramatically from one user to another for a wide variety of reasons that range from skill and ability to time and effort invested. That puts far more of the burden on us, but also gives us a level of flexibility and control that a product like SmartThings cannot. Unfortunately, it also offers the "opportunity" to run amuck in a large number of ways, which makes a centralized support function unrealistic for a product with a relatively small customer base.

Given those realities, the user base and this Board are an invaluable resource, but as you noted, the extended history of HS is in conflict with that model. It's a problem that many have raised, but no one has solved: How to capture the enduring knowledge of the workings of HS that are buried deep within the threads on this board while filtering out the repetitive, irrelevant, misguided, and obsolete information that constitutes most of the volume of board posts. That seems like a valid support function, even for - or especially for - a product like HS, but it has been inadequately addressed by HST. In my opinion it is a major unmet need, and a real opportunity to make the product more accessible and less intimidating, by providing a way for new users to achieve success more quickly and with less frustration.

If you have a suggestion for a fix, I'm sure you will find many here who would be interested.

[racerfern]

I will say that based on my experience HS does support their product. They were willing to spend the time with me via email and also to log onto my system to help work out a problem.

It may seem they leave it up to the end user because:
A) the answer is usually on the forum somewhere
B) the posse of helpers far outnumbers the employees at HS
C) hey you messed it up, you fix it. It's not an HS issue. (although strongly stated, this is probably 95% of the problems anyways)

I'm thrilled with HS compared to the alternatives. I am disappointed the software isn't more polished (undo/redo) for example, but it's still the best.