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  • 2019 Ideas

    As we enter 2019 I wanted to regurgitate some of the ideas that have previously been thrown out there (especially given how many new users and potential developers we have). Most of these interrelate for overall goals though breaking it up may make things more digestable

    Bayseian Sensor (i.e. Home Assistant)
    The holy grail of home automation and security is for the house to automagically know when someone is there and who it is. Down to the room if possible. This functionality would permit such an endeavor using the data sources we presently have and could have

    BLE Occupancy Detection
    Room by room reliable user detection using BLE (mobile phone, smart watch, activity tracker) with turnkey clients that can be plugged in / powered, paired, and done. Provisioning to be done by a central controller that handles all of the logic. I've seen several implementations so far that may work(ish)

    NFC Occupancy
    Like BLE but with NFC. Envisioning something like the NFCring where you walk in or out of a room or scan it on something specific like a nightstand

    Fitness Tracking
    All of the API's are out there. Incorporating this would allow for a range of things including potential medical support (if your heart stops and you're wearing an apple watch?)

    Thermal Tracking
    Not PIR, but something that can sample the temperatures in a room and report back if a human is detected (moving or not) Also something that can be more specific to an area (i.e. pointed at the oven) The sensors are cheap enough to make this work.

    Feel free to add anything else to this list. Let's challenge ourselves!

  • #2
    Another idea - I'm in the office now listing to music on a Sonos. I'd like to seamlessly have the music follow me to wherever I go or at least be able to say Alexa/Siri play this in the Den. The Den has an Onkyo that has Airplay. So some way to figure out where I am and what I'm listening to, where I am going and how to play it down there. In this case it's apple music so the iTunes plugin could play it if something matched up the song/artist to something in my library, then told iTunes to play it to the receiver.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's not going to happen any time soon. There just seems to be too little interest. Everyone wants a "modern UI" to turn their connected light bulbs on and off.

      I have PIR motion sensors in each room and outside. My music follows me from room to room. Has been for years.
      Originally posted by rprade
      There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

      Comment


      • #4
        True occupancy detection has been a dream of mine for years, but as S-F said i don't see it happening anytime soon. Motion sensors are great for when moving in and out of rooms, but for most rooms, I find it lacking. I currently only use motion detection in bathrooms (using Wasp in a box logic) and in the kitchen. Both are still not fool proof.

        I have considered putting beam sensors in all the doors, but not all rooms currently work for that, but most would. You just count how many people enter vs exit. You can do this with 2 beam sensors: A and B. A->B is entering and B->A is existing. The biggest hurtle for me is actually installing them as the best tine would have been when I redid all the trim in the house, but that was before I was serious about HA in general.

        I think Thermal tracking would be great, but I have a 130lb dog and it would likely constantly do false positives.
        Thanks,
        Frank

        Comment


        • #5
          what Homeseer is lacking is a good Audio / Video integration ! the current media api really sucks. I use to use Girder & Netremote which had a media bridge that support several audio programs Jrivers being the one i used and it was awesome. I could scroll through the media covers then select one to play or create a custom playlist on the fly.
          Hstouch really needs this support. just look at main lobby or control4
          i really am missing the audio.

          Frustrated Paul.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sirmeili View Post
            True occupancy detection has been a dream of mine for years, but as S-F said i don't see it happening anytime soon. Motion sensors are great for when moving in and out of rooms, but for most rooms, I find it lacking. I currently only use motion detection in bathrooms (using Wasp in a box logic) and in the kitchen. Both are still not fool proof.

            I have considered putting beam sensors in all the doors, but not all rooms currently work for that, but most would. You just count how many people enter vs exit. You can do this with 2 beam sensors: A and B. A->B is entering and B->A is existing. The biggest hurtle for me is actually installing them as the best tine would have been when I redid all the trim in the house, but that was before I was serious about HA in general.

            I think Thermal tracking would be great, but I have a 130lb dog and it would likely constantly do false positives.
            I saw something on Reddit where a college student is doing exactly that - beam tracking at doors to count people entering/exiting. Would bet that could be adapted to Homeseer. I wish one of our developers would pick up the challenge to start a comprehensive occupancy plugin that could pull data from whatever sources / data available and perform the probability analysis. It could start with the basics and be expanded over time like most of our great plugins have matured to their current states.

            S-F turned me on to Ian Mercer so I've been reading his blog today; he has implemented a lot of concepts that could be carried over to our platform.

            Let's explore that - the dog question with occupancy. Currently we talk at each other here a lot maybe a conversation would be in order.... So we have an autonomous free thinking entity that has its own routines but also free will. It's behavior can be predicted to a point but we need to consider it to be like a person as well to bring us to 99% accuracy in room detection.

            Considering our available data sources using current technology or what could be implemented:
            PIR motion detection
            RFID tag tracking
            BLE tag tracking
            Thermal tracking (cost effectively limited to an 8x8 array, maybe something larger and can be refined with positioning and focused optics)
            Weight tracking under the floor (not available in all homes or all floors)
            Image recognition (cameras in each room)
            Audio tracking and identification (this never gets talked about, but if a system could break out voices/sounds that's a whole new realm)

            It could be feasible to accurately track who/what is in a room, what it's doing and where it's going. I'd go further to say that with present technology and the right software, inanimate objects and events could also be tracked and identified locally.

            I think there should be some tenants of a philosophy to be adopted here:

            Cost effective (not cheap)
            Limited cloud dependency
            Reliable
            Interoperable

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't care about the cost. I want a virtual assistant for HS.

              UI used to use wi-fry monitoring of my phone to determine occupancy. I got a new phone with a newer version of android and it doesn't respond to pings when the screen is off. Lame.
              PHLocation doesn't work for me any more. Lame
              I try to use camera analytics to monitor people in my driveway. It's probably 3/4 false positives.

              The key is sensor density. With enough motion detectors, strain detectors, pressure sensitive mats, etc. a fairly good idea should be able to be developed with machine learning of occupant behavior.

              Ian Mercer has nailed it. Machine learning, a natural language interface, he's doing it and doing it right.

              There was a fellow on CCT who did the dual beam break door thing. He said it worked well.

              If someone wants to write plugins for this stuff I will travel to your part of the country and do the necessary remodeling. I'm a carpenter.
              Originally posted by rprade
              There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by S-F View Post
                I don't care about the cost. I want a virtual assistant for HS.

                UI used to use wi-fry monitoring of my phone to determine occupancy. I got a new phone with a newer version of android and it doesn't respond to pings when the screen is off. Lame.
                PHLocation doesn't work for me any more. Lame
                I try to use camera analytics to monitor people in my driveway. It's probably 3/4 false positives.

                The key is sensor density. With enough motion detectors, strain detectors, pressure sensitive mats, etc. a fairly good idea should be able to be developed with machine learning of occupant behavior.

                Ian Mercer has nailed it. Machine learning, a natural language interface, he's doing it and doing it right.

                There was a fellow on CCT who did the dual beam break door thing. He said it worked well.

                If someone wants to write plugins for this stuff I will travel to your part of the country and do the necessary remodeling. I'm a carpenter.
                What were you using for camera analytics? I'm at the point of investing in the video surveillance system and have played with Sighthound/Blue Iris.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kideon View Post

                  What were you using for camera analytics? I'm at the point of investing in the video surveillance system and have played with Sighthound/Blue Iris.
                  I'm using Blue Iris with a top of the line IP camera. SightHound may work better. I don't know and am probably not going to find out since it's SO EXPENSIVE and has recurring costs.
                  Originally posted by rprade
                  There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by S-F View Post

                    I'm using Blue Iris with a top of the line IP camera. SightHound may work better. I don't know and am probably not going to find out since it's SO EXPENSIVE and has recurring costs.
                    If I could offer a suggestion building off what another user was doing - use southbound and blue iris together at least that’s what I’m considering. Blue iris for all of the streams and sighthound for the ones that are most relevant for person detection

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kideon View Post

                      If I could offer a suggestion building off what another user was doing - use southbound and blue iris together at least that’s what I’m considering. Blue iris for all of the streams and sighthound for the ones that are most relevant for person detection
                      Yeah, but it's $250 and rthe $50 a year. Bit steep if it doesn't work well. And by reading the comments it's spotty.
                      Originally posted by rprade
                      There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by S-F View Post

                        Yeah, but it's $250 and rthe $50 a year. Bit steep if it doesn't work well. And by reading the comments it's spotty.
                        If it helps the two camera license is a lot less and there’s no annual fee. I’ve found the detection to be spot using the trial and even basic free (no alert) level.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kideon View Post

                          If it helps the two camera license is a lot less and there’s no annual fee. I’ve found the detection to be spot using the trial and even basic free (no alert) level.
                          Is that supposed to be "spot on" or "spotty"?

                          Also the $60 version has the same yearly fee of $50 to get new updates. If it works as advertised it's worth it.
                          Originally posted by rprade
                          There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by S-F View Post

                            Is that supposed to be "spot on" or "spotty"?

                            Also the $60 version has the same yearly fee of $50 to get new updates. If it works as advertised it's worth it.
                            Oh spot on. I’d download the trial and give it a shot at least. It is very good at capturing me coming home at 2am with wawa in my hand

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by kideon View Post

                              Oh spot on. I’d download the trial and give it a shot at least. It is very good at capturing me coming home at 2am with wawa in my hand
                              Are you using it with HS yet? I would like to use it to control counters indicating how many people have gone in or out of specific doorways but I was told in the initial UltraSightHound thread that this was not possible. If not I don't really see the purpose of a HS plugin for it. A $10 motion sensor could detect you coming in the door. I guess the benefit would be in sirmili's case where his dog is so big it would absolutely trip a PIR.
                              Originally posted by rprade
                              There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

                              Comment

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