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Master / Slave ???

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  • Master / Slave ???

    OK, now that I have your attention. I'm sorry if this has been asked before but I'm in a quandary.

    I'm completely forklift upgrading my OmniPro 1.3r (1997) system to the last and greatest OmniPro II 4.0b with just about every interface known to man (except UPB) to future and past proof myself.

    I have purchased dual interfaces to both my HS3 and OmniPro systems with X-10, Z-Wave, Zigbee, Lutron Radio RA2 as well as the HAI 308MHZ wireless receiver, I found one cheap, that supports contacts, panic buttons etc.

    But as both systems each have their own "interface controller", I'm looking for some wisdom and guidance on some best practices of setting up a dual control system.

    My current thoughts for example X-10 is to define the X-10 devices in the OmniPro and have them imported into HS3 but hiding them. I have that working and for now the HS3 just talks to the OmniPro if I want to turn lights on/off or to see status. But that requires that the Ethernet link remain active and also that the OmniPro doesn't go offline. I'm now in the process of defining "real" X-10 devices in HS3 and use the Link function at the bottom of the new device screen, to link something like P3 (Kitchen Table) to the same device in the OmniPro that responds to P3 (the same Kitchen table). This way both will mirror the status of the unit and both can command the light to go on, off, dim, etc.

    But, being I've never used or setup Z-Wave, Zigbee, Radio RA2, etc, I don't know if they are like X-10 where each device has it's own MAC address and is just resides on it's respective network and by adding a switch to the Z-Stick, I can also add the same switch using the Omni Z-Controller.

    I'd like to mirror the methodology I have now where the OmniPro is responsible as a core process and security controller that handles baseline events, doors opening and lights turning on if it's dark, etc. But then have the higher brain functions in HomeSeer in the form of complex triggered events, heuristic and decision making scripts, personalization, etc.

    Am I going in the right direction and is that what most people that have two authoritative systems have done?

    Thanks in advance,
    George

  • #2
    @George,
    I'm not sure whether I should respond to your post or not. A lot of what you said is kind of over my head, and I'm not sure how much of the following you might already know.

    That said, however, I might be able to offer a little bit of help in two areas.

    First, I have a feeling that you are making the HS3 to OP2 link way too complicated. I have HS3 running on a HomeTroller SEL, an OP2 panel, and a bunch of X10 devices that interface directly to the OP2 panel via an HAI X10 interface. HS3 and OP2 communicate with each other via the OMNI plug-in.

    I have had the OP2 setup with X10 devices forever. When I added HS3 to the mix, I lost none of my previous OP2 control of X10 functionality -- an OP2 program can still tell an X-10 what to do.

    When you install the OMNI plug-in, it automatically creates HS3 devices for all of the OP2 zones -- they just show up on the HS3 Home page. The X10 devices connected to the OP2, however, are considered units. The OMNI plug-in does not automatically create HS3 devices for units, though it is very easy to do. You just go to the OMNI plug-in configuration page and click the Units tab. You will get a page that shows all of the units that OP2 knows about, including all of the X10 devices it interfaces. The rightmost column of the unit devices list consists of buttons that allow you to make them visible to HS3. Every time you click a red button to green, that unit will be created as another device in the OMNI group of the HS3 device display list. An X-10 device in that list will show the current status of that device, and there is an option to change the value by clicking ON or OFF on the right. You can also use OP2's X-10 devices in HS3 event definitions, the same as any other HS3 device. HS3 status monitoring and control of the X-10 device is fully compatible with status monitoring and control exercised by the OP2 panel. It's as if the X-10 device has two bosses. If either gives an order, he jumps; and both know what he's up to at all times. So the linking you were talking about is automatic.

    The same story applies to buttons.

    I'd like to mirror the methodology I have now where the OmniPro is responsible as a core process and security controller that handles baseline events, doors opening and lights turning on if it's dark, etc. But then have the higher brain functions in HomeSeer in the form of complex triggered events, heuristic and decision making scripts, personalization, etc.

    Am I going in the right direction and is that what most people that have two authoritative systems have done?
    I think I am in basic agreement with what you have said. Reasons why I view OP2 as "core process":
    • When the chips are down, I trust my OP2 more than HS3. OP2 can run for a year -- even through power outages -- without needing a reboot. I won't go into reasons here, but I can't say that for HS3.
    • OP2 has important functionality that (AFAIK) HS3 does not. For instance, when there is a fire or burlar, OP2 automatically initiates highly reliable digital dial-out reporting to my security monitorings service.
    • The OP2 programs are burned into EEPROM memory. So, if you like what you've got, it isn't going to disappear or get corrupted because of a system glitch somewhere.
    • OP2 is tightly integrated with its wall mounted control panels. HS3 can exercise some control over them, but OP2 panel control is more straightforward.
    Reasons why I generally prefer HS3 events over OP2 programs:
    • HS3 is relatively light on its feet. I can create or modify a simple event in HS3 much faster than I could add a new program to OP2. If I want to change the time that an X-10 light comes on, after making the code change, I have to burn the EEPROMs in OP2, which takes forever (i.e., a minute or two).
    • (This one is important!) If you have the OMNI plug-in installed, then HS3 has full access to all of the devices connected to it, as well as all the devices connected to OP2. But (as I understand it), OMNI offers you all of the OP2 devices, but it doesn't tell OP2 about all of the HS3 devices. (I don't see how it could.) So, if you want to sit on a throne that can rule the world, I think you need to be working in HS3.
    doors opening and lights turning on if it's dark, etc.
    Well, maybe, but I think you'll find it easier to do this stuff in HS3.

    I hope I've said something useful.

    Comment


    • #3
      My current thoughts for example X-10 is to define the X-10 devices in the OmniPro and have them imported into HS3 but hiding them. I have that working and for now the HS3 just talks to the OmniPro if I want to turn lights on/off or to see status. But that requires that the Ethernet link remain active and also that the OmniPro doesn't go offline.
      Yeah, I'm sorry I told you how to do stuff you've already done. Some day I'll learn how to read.

      When I was first setting up OMNI, it went off-line once -- I can't remember why. But that hasn't happened again in many moons.

      You are right, the HS3 - OP2 link needs a functional LAN. You remind me how much I depend on it. I tend to ignore my LAN because it has an excellent long term track record. (Wish I could say that about my Internet connection....) I have a lot of my security stuff in a shop about 1000 feet from the house, all connected by wireless LAN extension. All Ethernet switches and (2) Z-NET controllers are on UPS. OP2, of course, has its own batteries. If the LAN failed, the shop Z-wave door lock would still be locally functional -- it just wouldn't be able to talk with HS3. If the LAN failed, I would lose communication with all my Z-wave devices.

      I think most people would agree that X-10 devices are not terribly reliable, no matter what you hook them to.

      I have a 64-zone HAI wireless receiver model 45A00-1 -- that might be the one you mentioned. I don't use it much because of reliability and batteries. It doesn't have a mesh architecture, like Z-wave.

      Comment


      • #4
        I might add that I use my wireless LAN link as a back door way to provide OP2 security to my shop. I have made the shop a separate OP2 security area. The HAI folks (now Leviton) would have me install additional OP2 control panels at the shop to administer shop security there. The hardware would cost too much, and I'd still need a dedicated link to the house. That 1000 foot link has to cross a creek.

        Once I had the Ethernet wireless transceivers in place, I was able to define the shop as a separate OP2 security area without having to buy any more HAI equipment. HS3 in my home monitors shop devices. It changes shop security mode according to event rules, and if necessary, it tells OP2 to report a shop burglary or fire. I can lock or unlock the place and change the area security mode remotely. A Z-NET in the shop lets me connect any Z-wave devices locally, and a LAN access point there provides Wi-Fi to anybody who wants it.

        As you say, I need my LAN to make the music play. But if I didn't want to depend on LAN, I'm not sure what I'd do. It's sort of like how do you report a fire if the phone line's dead. All i can think of is parallel redundant systems ($$$).

        Comment


        • #5
          ... for now the HS3 just talks to the OmniPro if I want to turn lights on/off or to see status
          As you can probably infer from prior posts, I find it handy to do a lot of OP2 security control via HS3 events. For example:

          I come home and unlock the door by entering the combination for my Z-wave Schlage lock. When HS3 detects that the door has been unlocked with my personal code (not the one for the housekeeper), it automatically switches the house from AWAY to DISARMED OP2 security mode. If it's dark, the lights in the entry room are turned on, and living room reading lights and curio cabinet lights are turned on.

          When I go to bed at night, HS3 locks the door, but it also puts OP2 in NIGHT DELAY security mode. It DISARMs the house at the appropriate time the next morning.

          I really like the ability to define events that can appropriately modify OP2 area security modes.

          Comment


          • #6
            It's worth considering that appropriate event definitions can help HS3 and OP2 look out for each other. For instance:

            HS3 can monitor OP2 general status, and if it detects a problem (such as panel off-line), it can send an email to notify user.

            Conversely, OP2 can monitor HS3 health, and if necessary, send an alarm / alert to the security monitoring company, who will then call the user.

            There are lots of possibilities.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ericg View Post

              I come home and unlock the door by entering the combination for my Z-wave Schlage lock. When HS3 detects that the door has been unlocked with my personal code (not the one for the housekeeper), it automatically switches the house from AWAY to DISARMED OP2 security mode. If it's dark, the lights in the entry room are turned on, and living room reading lights and curio cabinet lights are turned on.

              When I go to bed at night, HS3 locks the door, but it also puts OP2 in NIGHT DELAY security mode. It DISARMs the house at the appropriate time the next morning.

              I really like the ability to define events that can appropriately modify OP2 area security modes.
              This is one of the bigger hits at our house. Our Schlage lock also acts as the trigger for disarming and turning on the lights. The wife and kid are big fans of this.
              We also have a nightly "Alexa, turn on bedtime" which turns off the majority of lights and arms the system.
              HS3Pro Running on a Raspberry Pi3
              64 Z-Wave Nodes, 168 Events, 280 Devices
              UPB modules via OMNI plugin/panel
              Plugins: Z-Wave, BLRF, OMNI, HSTouch, weatherXML, EasyTrigger
              HSTouch Clients: 3 Android, 1 Joggler

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes here it is the OmniPro 2 that primarily manages security (with CO) and does the basic heartbeat of the Home stuff.

                Homeseer adds a higher level of automation using the Omni plugin plus have gone to duplicating controllers for X10, UPB, ZWave and Zigbee.

                I am at 100% efficiency these days to whatever X10 is still around at home and UPB. I have way too much invested in my UPB wall switches to spend the time or efforts or money to switch. (well and my electric here is all in conduit and metal boxes).

                X10 and UPB are checks and balances. I am able to replicate the OmniPro 2 ZWave network from the ZNet to the HAI VRCOP. (except for wireless stuff) and Zigbee is autonomous.

                I also have the two wireless transcievers that HAI sold a few years ago but do not use them much.

                Lately too now play with the HAI touchscreen designer with the OmniTouch 5.7E's and OmniTouchPro on tabletop touchscreens. (difficult for me as I am used to using Homeseer Touch designer).

                Really it is a bit over done. Automation here is a sandbox to keep me busy.

                I like to tinker with hardware here and just built a light mini PC box that runs Ubuntu main for Homeseer 3 and Windows 7 embedded for just Microsoft / Homeseer SAPI TTS.

                I just happen to have collected all of this stuff (and controllers) over the years. I do not need to replicate the controllers. I just have fun doing this.

                I did also purchase a micro serial server which works (sort of) and is connected to the Russound zoned audio and Homeseer 3. Fastest control though that I use for Russound is the Russound Keypads and Omnitouch screens. (again over done and too resilent).



                - Pete

                Auto mator
                Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb- Mono 6.8X
                Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.8X
                HS4 pro - 4.0.3.0 - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb - Mono 6.8X

                X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Smartthings hub, Hubitat Hub, and Home Assistant

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