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Heated floor thermostat - No Z-Wave, possibly Zigbee

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  • Heated floor thermostat - No Z-Wave, possibly Zigbee

    Hello,

    I'm a bit stuck in a uncommon situation and could use some advice.

    What I currently have in place is HS3 Pro with a Z-Net interface. I also have an ISY with Z-Wave and Insteon. The later is not yet integrated with HS.

    In HS, I have an elaborate configuration managing the heating/cooling of the house, all based on Z-Wave devices. But I'm about to add a electrically heated floor in the common area of the house and I can not locate any Z-Wave thermostats for a heated floor that works with the North America Z-Wave standard (I'm in Canada). I found plenty of these thermostats for the EU standard though and I can hardly imagine there are none for NA.

    So, the 1st question, does anybody has ever seen NA standard Z-Wave thermostats for heated floors?

    What I have found though is there are several Zigbee and Wi-Fi thermostats available in NA. Wi-Fi is out of the question for 2 reasons, being forced to use an app that requires an internet connection and the un-ability to control them with HS3. So it seems Zigbee is the only option I have left.

    Therefore, the second question, is it possible to integrate a Zigbee controller into HS somehow so I could include the control of Zigbee thermostats into my already existing HS3 configuration, and what would be required to achieve this? I have briefly looked at the HSZigbee and Jowihue plugins but they seem very much oriented towards basic lighting and I doubt they would support thermostats.

    And the 3rd question, if the above would be deemed impossible, what Zigbee controller and software would you recommend, preferably one that would also sport a Z-Wave radio.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Guy


  • #2
    Shameless self promotion.... Look at the Hubitat plugin that is available and the Hubitat Elevation hub. It has z-wave and zigbee and is actually a good controller. This will bring you more than just lights....

    For floor heating I'm going to be developing a plugin for NuHeat Signature thermostat's which are specifically made for Floor heating and line voltage applications like baseboards. I just received the development thermostat so I have not started working on the plugin yet. Time frame... by this fall for release.

    Comment


    • #3
      Would this suit?

      https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/col...module-zmnhid3

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by simplextech View Post
        Shameless self promotion.... Look at the Hubitat plugin that is available and the Hubitat Elevation hub. It has z-wave and zigbee and is actually a good controller. This will bring you more than just lights....

        For floor heating I'm going to be developing a plugin for NuHeat Signature thermostat's which are specifically made for Floor heating and line voltage applications like baseboards. I just received the development thermostat so I have not started working on the plugin yet. Time frame... by this fall for release.
        I've played with an Hubitat controller at some point. I got trown out of their forum because I was challenging their stupid decision to enforce DHCP IP and not support static IP. I made enough of a point that they simply silenced me and (at least had the decency to) reimburse the controller.

        I didn't know there was an hubitat plugin for HS3. And if the elevation hub you mention can work with a static IP, I'm interested. Otherwise, no, thanks. I won't remake here the point I made at Hubitat. The rule in my house is a static device gets a static IP and only mobile devices go thru DHCP. There are reasons behind this that are beyond this post.


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Fellhahn View Post
          I did see that device at some but didn't dig into it for 2 reasons. First of, EU Z-Wave devices uses different frequencies than US Z-Wave devices. Second, AC Frequency in EU is 50 Hz, in US, it's 60 Hz. With the exception of power supplies and most AC to DC converters, electronic devices are usually sensitive to that when connected directly to AC power.

          Have you used these devices in North America? You being in Australia I guess not.

          What are the AC power specs (voltage and frequency) in Australia? Here in Canada, it's 240 V at 60 Hz.


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by zguy View Post

            I've played with an Hubitat controller at some point. I got trown out of their forum because I was challenging their stupid decision to enforce DHCP IP and not support static IP. I made enough of a point that they simply silenced me and (at least had the decency to) reimburse the controller.

            I didn't know there was an hubitat plugin for HS3. And if the elevation hub you mention can work with a static IP, I'm interested. Otherwise, no, thanks. I won't remake here the point I made at Hubitat. The rule in my house is a static device gets a static IP and only mobile devices go thru DHCP. There are reasons behind this that are beyond this post.

            Yeah I remember you on the Hubitat forum

            Yes it is the same Hubitat hub. I won't rehash that issue but I did and still do agree with your criticism and many others do as well. However currently it is still the best ZigBee controller available that is local processed and not cloud based.

            Looking back on your requirement for a floor heating thermostat I still recommend the NuHeat Signature. It is designed for floor heating. It is a Wifi device but it does have an API and I am going to develop a plugin for this thermostat. I just installed the development unit yesterday so there will be a plugin before the weather turns cold because I want to be warm

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by zguy View Post

              I did see that device at some but didn't dig into it for 2 reasons. First of, EU Z-Wave devices uses different frequencies than US Z-Wave devices. Second, AC Frequency in EU is 50 Hz, in US, it's 60 Hz. With the exception of power supplies and most AC to DC converters, electronic devices are usually sensitive to that when connected directly to AC power.

              Have you used these devices in North America? You being in Australia I guess not.

              What are the AC power specs (voltage and frequency) in Australia? Here in Canada, it's 240 V at 60 Hz.

              zguy That is a link to a US frequency device sold from a US store located in New Jersey.

              If you read the device manual, page 6 details which exact model number is for which region. The last digit in the model number specifies the region, in this case 3 = US. It uses 908.4MHz Z-Wave and can work with either 50Hz or 60Hz power.

              Despite living in Australia I use US frequency devices, this is due to the selection of Australian frequency devices being abysmally small and criminally over priced, a common trait of the consumer market here.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by simplextech View Post
                Shameless self promotion.... Look at the Hubitat plugin that is available and the Hubitat Elevation hub. It has z-wave and zigbee and is actually a good controller. This will bring you more than just lights....

                For floor heating I'm going to be developing a plugin for NuHeat Signature thermostat's which are specifically made for Floor heating and line voltage applications like baseboards. I just received the development thermostat so I have not started working on the plugin yet. Time frame... by this fall for release.
                I just looked at those NuHeat thermostats. Like most Wi-Fi products, they require setting up an account on an external internet web site.

                I understand the so called ease of use Wi-Fi enabled devices can bring. But in the case of home automation, one of the primary requirement is that your system be independent of external sources. So having to setup an account to get the device up and working is a show stopper in my book.

                I understand most people don't care much about this and that's fine, it's their choice. Unfortunately, it's not mine. My data stays home where my system is and no external party has any rights to access or control or have it in any way. I know, I'm a tough nut...

                It's a bit like the 'My Homeseer' account. It provides some added functionalities. But I prefer not to have these extras and make sure my personal data stays personal. And that doesn't mean I can't access my stuff from outside the home, on the contrary, which is the basic feature all those devices claim to provide.

                Nevertheless, good luck with your plugin.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by simplextech View Post

                  Yeah I remember you on the Hubitat forum

                  Yes it is the same Hubitat hub. I won't rehash that issue but I did and still do agree with your criticism and many others do as well. However currently it is still the best ZigBee controller available that is local processed and not cloud based.

                  Looking back on your requirement for a floor heating thermostat I still recommend the NuHeat Signature. It is designed for floor heating. It is a Wifi device but it does have an API and I am going to develop a plugin for this thermostat. I just installed the development unit yesterday so there will be a plugin before the weather turns cold because I want to be warm
                  Ah! We're meeting again then

                  I agree it is a good product. Just sad they're so close minded.

                  Would your plugin work with other Zigbee hubs?

                  I'm thinking a Zipato Zipatile Automation and Security Controller with Zwave,Zigbee,BT

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fellhahn View Post

                    zguy That is a link to a US frequency device sold from a US store located in New Jersey.

                    If you read the device manual, page 6 details which exact model number is for which region. The last digit in the model number specifies the region, in this case 3 = US. It uses 908.4MHz Z-Wave and can work with either 50Hz or 60Hz power.

                    Despite living in Australia I use US frequency devices, this is due to the selection of Australian frequency devices being abysmally small and criminally over priced, a common trait of the consumer market here.
                    Ok, I'll have a closer look, thanks.

                    I understand your predicament. We have a very similar one here.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nevermind the HeatIt Z-Wave thermostat is not for US/CA market...

                      The Hubitat plugin is very specific to the Hubitat Hub and no other hubs. The Zipato is one system I do not have for testing. I don't have one nor used one so I don't know if integration is possible or not.

                      The NuHeat is wifi and requires an account however the setup and information is minimal with no "app" required. Setup was for me to enter an email address on the thermostat, check my email to activate the account and that was it. No phone required for setup.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fellhahn View Post

                        zguy That is a link to a US frequency device sold from a US store located in New Jersey.

                        If you read the device manual, page 6 details which exact model number is for which region. The last digit in the model number specifies the region, in this case 3 = US. It uses 908.4MHz Z-Wave and can work with either 50Hz or 60Hz power.

                        Despite living in Australia I use US frequency devices, this is due to the selection of Australian frequency devices being abysmally small and criminally over priced, a common trait of the consumer market here.
                        So, I went back to check that Qubino device. It's a shame it's a bit under powered as that might have worked. It's limited to 10 Amps 2400 watts and I need 15 Amps 3600 watts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by zguy View Post

                          So, I went back to check that Qubino device. It's a shame it's a bit under powered as that might have worked. It's limited to 10 Amps 2400 watts and I need 15 Amps 3600 watts.
                          Maybe use the Qubino to turn on / off a larger capacity relay which would then control power to the heating coils.

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