Wifi vs zwave Devices

[Club Chapin]

I'm a long term zwave user, running mostly Leviton Original Vizia Zwave devices. I always have one or two that can't seem to connect. Some don't take static routes. Often, the whole zwave network is slow to respond, 10+ second between Alexa command and action. (non zwave devices are nearly instantaneous.) I think that zwave+ looks a lot better. I figure that at some point I will switch to Zwave+, Zigbee, or Radio RA2 (or 3 by the time I get to it.) I see a lot of wifi devices now, for example Leviton Light switches and also Amazon and other branded wifi devices that work directly with Echo.

Can these wifi devices work directly with homeseer? I have one plug in wifi device that I would like to try.

Does anyone have any experience running 80ish nodes of wifi vs 80ish nodes of zwave (or zigbee or Radio Ra?) It would be nice to have a system with instant status from a device, which I believe Lutron used to hold a patent on (I think that has expired?) and why my 2007 era zwave does not support this.

At any rate, do these wifi devies work with home seer and how reliable and responsive are they compared to the other control schemes available?

Sorry if this is the wrong forum for this question. Wasn't sure where else to post it.

Thanks.

[ksum]

If you are on your internet provider's WiFi unit you may run into a limit on the number of devices which can connect to it. Especially at 80+ doing with you phone(s), laptops, etc. So you may need to add am access point.

[sparkman]

I have well over 100 zwave devices in my network including those same original Leviton zwave switches and dimmers. My network is responsive and no issues with connectivity even to the far reaches of the house. From my perspective, there’s no need to replace them.

[AllHailJ]

I have to ask - have you tried optimizing your z-wave network. Also have you looked at your polling of devices? Excessive polling can slow down response. I have 92 nodes and if the response is not within a second I know something is wrong. All of my nodes directly connect to my smartstick+. The majority of my devices are z-wave+. On HSTouch when I am moving around big files to display this can take 1-2 seconds but that is based on harddisk and processor speed. I don't use Google or Alexa (privacy issues - I know my problem) so can't speak to that. I also noticed that my response improved slightly when I upped my Internet speed (80 to 300 Mbits down but still 12Mbits up). I have alot of ethernet devices both wired and wireless.

Hope this helps.

[risquare]

I had tons of problems with z-wave, gave up and thrashed them all 7-8 years ago. My situation is unique though as the distances are fairly long here. WiFi is better suited for longer distances as good technology exist ( Ubiquity Acces points, I have 8 of them ) for a reliable mesh.

[Club Chapin]

Thanks. I have tried optimizing, full optimizing, and setting static routes. It all behaves about the same. I've got the original leviton zwave devices as well as some off brand zwave that doesn't help. I have a few zwave+ devices as well.

Wifi devices are no problem. I can spool up ssids and expand networks to accommodate them.

Apart from my zwave issues, that I would like to solve, can HS work directly with the wifi devices that work directly with the Echo/Google assistant? Is there perhaps a plug in for this? Maybe an HS4 feature?

[macromark]

The difference between Z-Wave (300 series) and Z-Wave Plus (500 series) is enormous. Errors and communication problems, delays.. range issues... were pretty common with older products. If you change out the old stuff and replace it with Z-Wave plus products, you'll have much better performance. At this point, I never have any issues... except to replace batteries in my sensors. Z-Wave Plus products have been on the market since 2014.

[risquare]

Apart from my zwave issues, that I would like to solve, can HS work directly with the wifi devices that work directly with the Echo/Google assistant? Is there perhaps a plug in for this?

Yes. The plug-in is called Big5. It does work with wide variety of interfaces and protocols such as TCP, HTTP, MQTT, REST, JSON, API . Most of the modern WiFi devices do support at least one of the above. Be aware however that some vendors do not disclose their protocols on purpose. So there is not a "cover all" answer to your question. With this said Big5 users have managed to adopt variety of devices under HS3 control from dishwashers to weather stations and everything in between.

[Michael McSharry]

WiFi switches. plugs, and bulbs sell at lower price points than Zwave devices and most use the cloud-based Tuya firmware. I understand that HS4 has Tuya compatibilty, but I do not know if they use the Tuya Cloud or if they capture the encryption keys and control them locally. My guess is more likely the former.

What I and may other do is install 3rd-Party firmware in the WiFi devices. This is normally done using Tuya Convert application that was developed by a German security company for the Rpi. After doing this then the control is local, just like the Zwave control, but without the need for a hub other than the WiFi router. What ksum indicated above should also be taken into account. If you install a lot of WiFi devices then it may exceed the capacity of mass-consumer routers and either a router upgrade or additional Access Points will be needed to support the WiFi volume.

Shelly as also provided another niche that uses already-installed bulbs and already-installed switches and puts a very small microcontroler with WiFi in the junction box behind the standard switch. This assumes that you have both power and neutral at the junction box. Sometimes on older houses only power is available at the junction box. The advantage with this is that your exist switch color and style does not need to change. Price points are in the $15-$25 range depending upon the functionality you want behind the switch and if you want power monitoring reported.

[ksum]

The Sonoff Mini fits in the junction box and uses a relay to control power. Low voltage goes to the switch. The relay is controlled either by a command sent to the unit or a change in the signal going through the switch. Flip the switch and it either completed or breaks the circuit. This change in the circuit changes the relay. So the "OFF" and "ON" values are no longer accurate. These have a DIY mode to easily flash with something like Tasmota.

The Shelly units are similar but send line voltage through the switch. The Shelly 2 also reports power consumption. The Shelly units have easily accessible pins for flashing.

[risquare]

What I and may other do is install 3rd-Party firmware in the WiFi devices.

This is exactly what I am doing as well. Here below is the firmware that I'm using. It's unbelievably good. I haven't seen so many features in any other ESP8266 relay board. Communicates very well with HS3 as it supports HTTP, TCP, MQTT and all commands are well documented in English. I'm using Big5 plug-in to communicate with it but other plug-ins that cover the any of the above protocols are good.

****** Replace 3 lines in the code per embedded instructions instructions and give it a try. ******

It's free to try (no credit card) and dirt cheap to buy. Copy everything below the &&&& line excluding the &&&&& line.


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&




/*
This INSTALLER will install any of the zumungo software products available at zumungo.com
zumungo.com offers advanced software for WiFi control of multiple relays, stepper motors and keypads
free trial, no credit card required is available for all products

IMPORTANT Please pick the software (Project_X) and insert your WiFi Network name and password in the code below between the " " quote marks without any spaces or any extra characters.

Project_X, where X = R for WiFi Relays
X = M for WiFi Matrix keypad
X = S for WiFi Stepper Motors


Flash this INSTALLER into your ESP32 or ESP8266 board and follow the instructions at zumungo.com/get-started

*/

#define PROJECT_R "http://www.zumungo.com/wp-content/uploads/firmware/ProjectR.bin"
#define PROJECT_M "http://www.zumungo.com/wp-content/uploads/firmware/ProjectM.bin"
#define PROJECT_S "http://www.zumungo.com/wp-content/uploads/firmware/ProjectS.bin"


/*********************************************************
Modification by user needed here
********************************************************/

String strProjectPath = PROJECT_X; /* Replace X here with R, M or S see explanation above */
String STA_ssid = ""; /* Insert the name of your WiFi Network between the quotes " " here no spaces */
String STA_pass = ""; /* Insert the password for your WiFi Network here between the quotes " " no spaces */

/* ************************************************************ *************************** */



#if defined(ESP32)
#include <HTTPUpdate.h>
#include <WiFi.h>
#include "SPIFFS.h"
#elif defined(ESP8266)
#include <ESP8266httpUpdate.h>
#include <ESP8266WiFi.h>
#include "FS.h"
#endif

void setup() {
Serial.begin(115200);
Serial.println();
Serial.println(F("Started!"));

Serial.println(F("Clear memory!"));
if (!SPIFFS.begin(true)) {
Serial.println("An Error has occurred while mounting SPIFFS");
}
else
{
if (!SPIFFS.format())
Serial.println("\n\nError formatting");
else
Serial.println(F("Memory cleared"));
}

setupWiFi();

if ((strProjectPath == PROJECT_R) || (strProjectPath == PROJECT_M) || (strProjectPath == PROJECT_S))
processOTA(strProjectPath);
else
{
Serial.println("ERROR: Incorrect path is selected");
Reboot();
}
}

void loop() {

}

/*********************************************************
* Setup WiFi
********************************************************/
void setupWiFi()
{
if (STA_ssid == "")
{
Serial.println("WiFi SSID not set");
return;
}
WiFi.mode(WIFI_STA);
WiFi.persistent(false);
Serial.println();
Serial.print("Connecting to ");
Serial.println(STA_ssid);

WiFi.begin(STA_ssid.c_str(), STA_pass.c_str());
// return;
int attempt = 0;

uint32_t ntick = millis();
while (WiFi.status() != WL_CONNECTED)
{
delay(250);
Serial.print(".");
attempt++;
if (attempt == 20)
{
Serial.println();
Serial.println("Connecting: new attempt");
WiFi.begin(STA_ssid.c_str(), STA_pass.c_str());
attempt = 0;
}

if ((ntick + 20000) < millis()) // 5sec
{
Serial.println("Can't establish WiFi connection");
break;
}
}

if (WiFi.status() == WL_CONNECTED)
{
Serial.println("");
Serial.println("WiFi connected");
Serial.println("IP address: ");
Serial.println(WiFi.localIP());

saveWiFiCredentials();
}
else
{
Reboot();
}
}

/*********************************************************
* Save WiFi credentials for Zumungo library.
********************************************************/
void saveWiFiCredentials()
{
if (SPIFFS.begin(true)) {
File configFile = SPIFFS.open("/WiFi.conf", "w");
if (configFile) {
configFile.println(STA_ssid);
configFile.println(STA_pass);
Serial.println("WiFi credentials have been saved");
}
}
}

/*********************************************************
* Perform OTA update
********************************************************/
void processOTA(String strUpdateUrl)
{
Serial.println(strUpdateUrl);
Serial.println(F("Begin OTA process"));
#if defined(ESP8266)
t_httpUpdate_return ret = ESPhttpUpdate.update(strUpdateUrl + "_esp8266");
#elif defined(ESP32)
WiFiClient client;
#define ESPhttpUpdate httpUpdate
t_httpUpdate_return ret = ESPhttpUpdate.update( client, strUpdateUrl + "_esp32" );
#endif


switch(ret) {
case HTTP_UPDATE_FAILED:
Serial.printf("HTTP_UPDATE_FAILED Error (%d): %s\r\n", ESPhttpUpdate.getLastError(), ESPhttpUpdate.getLastErrorString().c_str());
break;

case HTTP_UPDATE_NO_UPDATES:
Serial.println("HTTP_UPDATE_NO_UPDATES\r\n");
break;

case HTTP_UPDATE_OK:
Serial.println("HTTP_UPDATE_OK\r\n");
break;
}
Serial.println("OTA finished");
if (ret == HTTP_UPDATE_FAILED || (ret == HTTP_UPDATE_OK))
{
Reboot();
}
}

void Reboot()
{
Serial.println(F("ESP restarts..."));
delay(1000);
ESP.restart();
}

[Michael McSharry]

I took a look at zumungo and saw it as a takeoff of the Tasmota open source product. What advantage does it have over Tasmota considering that Tasmota has a very wide following, excellent documentation, and active support? Why pay for zumungo when Tasmota is free and vibrant?

[risquare]

Tasmota is an universal product while Zumungo targets 3 particular applications - relays, matrix keypad/sensors, stepper motors. Tasmota doesn't come even close as far performance and features go for these particular applications. It's like using a Swiss knife combo. It comes handy some times but if I need scissors or a stake knife I'd rather use real scissors and real steak knife instead of fumbling with the universal Swiss knife.

[Michael McSharry]

We have a difference of opinion on Zumungo. In my opinion It is a product without a real market. Its advertising is either false or misleading. For example, its IO mode of following a input in not unique to Zumungo, but just a setting in Tasmota of the type of switch that is being used with the relay. Many relay-based products support MQTT, TCP, UDP, or HTTP. Tasmota has schedules, etc. They advertise some unusual features, but each feature is a use case of some application and without the context of the application the feature is pretty useless. Can you give an example of what you have done with Zumungo that discriminates this product vs. just using a standard relay with Homeseer?

[kriz83]

I'm with Michael on this one. I'd prefer ESPHome or Tasmota over it any day. The userbase and development are far superior. Or am i missing something?

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