Floodlight wired to outdoor lights - need advice

[Tomgru]

In my new house... have some of the oddest wiring. One of the floodlights on the side of the house is actually wired to a set of my deck lights - so in order for it to be on, all the deck lights have to be on as well.

I've wired this to a HS Floodlight w/ sensor,and that part works great (when all lights on). currently i just have them off around bedtime, thus of course turning the power off to the floodlight. No biggie, but i then get occasional error messages in the log because it can't see the node. this also means that it usually shows nothing for the "last working route", unless of course it's on.

My electrician says rewiring is painful.... so before i go down that route, or just calm my OCD and ignore this ... any clever ideas from my brethren HA gurus?

thanks.

[drhtmal]

You could have all the lights wired hot and use smart bulbs

[M20J]

My guess? The flood lights were there first, and the deck lights were extended somewhere from that load wire off the switch?

You and your electrician may need to think a little out of the box to take advantage of this technology. Have creatively added both switches and lights. There are numerous ways to approach this.

It is a pretty easy task to use a cheap oscillating tool to extend a light switch box by one gang.

1. Purchase a deep old-work box one gang wider than you have,
2. Buzz out the drywall with the oscillating tool to match the larger size gang box
3. Use a carbide blade on the oscillating tool to cut the nails on the side of the original box.
4. Slide out the old box and slide in the new longer box.
5. Replace the single switch with 2 new switches.
6. If you get lucky and there are 2 loads at the old switch, wire 'em up and you're done.
7. More likely, the load was tapped into somewhere on the run. If so, leave the load wired hot. Run each newly installed switch without a load. Link one via the network to the floodlight sensor, and have it control the load via the 1st switch.
8. Using the hot load outside near your deck lights, add a zwave switch, dimmer, or outlet in a wet location box. With a cover. If you used a switch or dimmer, link it via Group 2 association, and you now have a three way setup to control your deck lights from the inside and/or outside.

If you don't want to extend the switch box in the house, you can use a single switch and control the two sets of lights via taps with a HS switch. You need the same setup with an outside deck box and the HS floodlight module.

Reply if this doesn't make sense.

[Michael McSharry]

I agree that using your existing switch as a master and leaving it normally ON is the easiest approach. Put local control with something like a Shelly 1/Shelly 1 PM in the J-box for WiFi control via your favorite mcs or AK plugin. This assumes you have WiFi coverage to this area.

Smart bulbs are also an option, but somewhat limiting. I originally tried that approach with some BR40 flood lights but they failed one after another in a matter of months. The manufacturer was good about it and refunded, but I then needed a new solution. What I did was use a Sonoff 4CH with Tasmota firmware and wired the four relays of the 4CH to each of 4 lamps in the ceiling. Tasmota handles Alexa voice so we use voice primarily to select the combination of lights we want to be on. The 4Ch also has RF control so the 4 button FOB provides the means for manual control. Of course HS/MQTT control/status is also possible, but just not needed for our use case.

The only downside is that when we have a power outage the lights all come on. This was a design choice so I could use the wall switch, which is now the power switch for the Sonoff 4CH, as a toggle to turn all lights on or off.

The alternate wiring option became available to me because I had attic access to the cans where the lights were installed. The Sonoff 4Ch tooks its place in the Attic. Same principle applies in your case where you do have access to the J-Box for something like a Shelly. What may (or may not) be an issue is the ability of WiFi or other RF technology to penetrate the J-Box as most sides are metallic in the picture.

[Tomgru]

Some super ideas here guys... thanks.

What i didnt' mention is that the deck switch is part of a 4-way setup... maybe doesn't matter in long run, but i'd need/like control of the deck from all slaves as well.

@mj02 , not sure which came first... before we moved in.

And here's the fun part,... the flood is about 30 feet up on the side of the house that slopes, so a ladder is pretty tough to make work. I can actually hang out my bedroom window to access (hence the HS flood install), but it can be a bit butt puckering

[drhtmal]

Based on having this extremely critical information about your setup, I withdraw my suggested solution and now recommend that you bite the bullet and hire someone who knows what they are doing to rewire. If you try this yourself your are most likely to be killed or at the very least incurr serious bodily injury.

Do you mind if I ask why would not have included the additional info you added to this post in the first place?

[ksum]

What about z-wave switches and contact modules? Associate a new switch with a module for the floodlight and the 4 way group with the deck lights? Power is always hot to the switches and modules and the modules control the lights.

Frankly, I would really consider the rewire and figure out which is less painful, the flood or deck lights. But only because I have a ceiling fan with no switch (uses a remote only) in a room where I have a wall box with hot wires and am electrician had no idea what was wired to where. All from someone changing the normal way something is done.

[Tomgru]

Based on having this extremely critical information about your setup, I withdraw my suggested solution and now recommend that you bite the bullet and hire someone who knows what they are doing to rewire. If you try this yourself your are most likely to be killed or at the very least incurr serious bodily injury.

Do you mind if I ask why would not have included the additional info you added to this post in the first place?

Just moving too quickly...

don't worry, ive done a fair amount of electrical and fully understand the danger. IF I were to take your particular idea, I would just leave the switch on and use zwave bulbs.

agree with most that this is probably best if just rerun....just looks pretty costly and not sure its worth it, hence my request for other possible ideas.

[logman]

This would work:

1) Find where the deck lights tap from the floodlights (or anywhere in between the tap and the 1st deck light) and install one of these: Qubino Z-Wave Relay or a Zigbee alternative: Zigbee On/Off Controller

2) Leave the original light switch turned on all the time to power the HS floods.

3) Mount this over original switch to control the deck lights: GoControl Wall Switch

4) Create an event for when a GoControl button is pushed the Qubino relay opens/closes.

Simple but works and no total rewire required.

--Barry

[logman]

S
What i didnt' mention is that the deck switch is part of a 4-way setup... maybe doesn't matter in long run, but i'd need/like control of the deck from all slaves as well.

Wait, I didn't read the thread far enough before replying. My suggestion above won't work in a multi-switch wiring scheme... Sorry.

--Barry