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    Extending Automation/Networking to a Boathouse.

    The water intake for my sprinkler system currently goes into a cove next to my property. My neighbor's kid somehow managed to kick it while swimming, requiring a couple stitches to close the cut. Neighbor has requested that I relocate the pipe, and is willing to help financially with the effort. Since I have to rent a trencher anyway, I decided to move the intake to the location of my future dock/boathouse. And since I will already have a trench, why not install the cables for power, LAN, etc that will eventually be needed.

    It's 501' (the way the cable runs) from the house to the dock location. Add another 50' to get where the switch is in the basement, and 100' for the dock. So 651 feet, which is just a tad (cough, cough) past the max for cat 5e/6). I'll have the 2" poly pipe for the sprinkler in the trench, along with the feed for the electric subpanel. Plan to put a receptacle every 100', so drop another electric cable in. I have a 18/4 wire for the weather station sensors running across the ground in the woods now, so I'll move that into the trench also. Dock would include a weatherproof storage area where everything would terminate. Probably will build a quick and dirty shed on land for the moment to keep everything out of the weather until the dock gets built.

    I want get some type of data access out there. Will need some type of automation to turn the sprinkler pump on/off. Possibly extend my Z-wave network using a Z-net. Or use some type of smart bulb, which would require WiFi. Maybe even some type of barebones security system and use the network to tie into the house.

    1. Would this be a good place to run fiber? Beyond how to spell it, I know NADA about fiber. I know I'll need converter at each end (either separate or built into a switch). A very short search on Amazon found some premade direct burial fiber https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J66FRC4/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza?th=1
    Fiber would get around the distance limitations of cat5, and also provide a little extra protection from nearby lightning strikes.
    2. Or is there a better way to do it? Stick a EERO in a waterproof enclosure halfway out, and another on the dock?
    3. I'm leaning against adding an additional pipe with pull string as future proofing, but I could be convinced otherwise.
    4. Anything else I might want to throw in while I have the trench open?
    My system is described in my profile.

    #2
    Don't do that long of a Cat6 run, it will run but you'll get a lot of errors and a lot of EMF with lightning. You can use extenders but I don't have any experience with them, so don't know how reliable (or expensive) they are.

    If you have good line of sight between the house and dock, check out Unbiquity equipment. For 500 feet, a airMax Nanostation 5AC should be easy (probably cost less than wire). Here's a link that will do a profile for you.
    https://link.ui.com/#

    You could then do a Z-net in the boat house or MQTT using Wifi (Unfi AP) or Enet. Wifi access at the boathouse would be a nice addition. A Nano would give you about 150 Mbps, more than Comcast gives you typically (that's usually what people on Lake Anna have)

    Note: Zwave doesn't work very well with small number of devices.

    Fiber has come a long way, but it has it's own set of issues (costs, installation, bend radius, etc). Wouldn't be my first choice.

    As far as another run, it depends on your current conduit fill. I'd make the instrumentation conduit larger with a pull wire rather than add another conduit. That said, 500' is a fairly long pull with wires already in the conduit (high likelihood you'll get your pull wire wrapped around the existing wires). Either way, you WILL want to add something new someday (odds are high it's very soon after you install it )

    Z

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      #3
      Ten years a go, I ran 500'+ of Cat5 from my house to my barn. I gave up after a couple of years and installed Ubiquiti Nanostations. I have had to replace them once - both the barn units and a closer pump house went out, but they aren't expensive and very reliable Since you will have ethernet, you can add a remote Z-net, although I've stuck with X-10 for all outbuilding applications. I do plan to move to Z-Net at some point. I do run WiFi at the barn and a 1-Wire server (Ethernet) at the pump house to monitor temperatures.

      I would still put in extra conduit. Now is the time. I can't speak to fiber, but having conduit in place would allow you to add it later or add whatever is the next big thing.
      Barry

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        #4
        Area between the house and dock is wooded, so no line of sight. One of the reasons I want a camera or two is to keep an eye on things since the dock won't be visible from the house.
        My system is described in my profile.

        Comment


          #5
          Another (slightly ghetto) option would be to run some cat5e, and stick a cheap switch inside a weather enclosure halfway. 500 ft of direct burial cat5e is dirt cheap at $40 for 500 ft.
          My system is described in my profile.

          Comment


            #6
            Weatherproof enclosures are not waterproof, especially if near the ground. The change in temp will cause any moisture inside to end up on the electronics You'd also need to run 802.3af or 802.3at POE (not passive) to run that far.

            I'd look at Cat6 extenders before I did that.
            And just because your run the cable in conduit doesn't mean it shouldn't still be direct burial"ish" due to the moisture issue.

            So how many trees are there in the way? Pine vs leafed? Completely blocked or is there a partial path if you locate one device higher (like on the house?). For that short a distance you have quite a bit of available gain in those devices to try and poke through partial vegetation. Multipath would probably be your biggest issue.

            Z

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              #7
              Originally posted by JLehnert View Post
              Another (slightly ghetto) option would be to run some cat5e, and stick a cheap switch inside a weather enclosure halfway. 500 ft of direct burial cat5e is dirt cheap at $40 for 500 ft.
              Sounds like the ideal place to put a IP weather station and an IP Camera. Makes it less ghetto. I actually have a POE ethernet switch in my generator at the end of a CAT5 run-- might not even need power out there to do this... I put an IP camera on it. Power the switch and camera are powered from the POE switch in the basement.

              I'd probably do fiber though-- no worry about lightning...
              HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 (Windows Server 8.1 on ESXi box)

              Plug-Ins Enabled:
              Z-Wave:,RaspberryIO:,AirplaySpeak:,Ecobee:,
              weatherXML:,JowiHue:,APCUPSD:,PHLocation:,Chromecast:,EasyTr igger:

              Comment


                #8
                Planning for a 30 amp subpanel at the lake, and 110 VAC every 50' - 100'. No need for POE.

                Was planning direct burial for everything. Conduit was only for future proofing.

                I can barely see the setting sun through the tree/brush, so it's not completely blocked. Mostly Red Oak, Tulip Poplar, and Sweetgum (HATE!), with a couple of pines thrown into the mix.
                My system is described in my profile.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Ugh.. Pines are good, leaves are bad (except in the winter).. 5Ghz is nice for rain, but not so with leaves. I'd still try the nanoStation if I was doing it just because it would be fun to try, but of course there would be no guarantee it would work, or be reliable.

                  Google Cat6 extenders, are probably the easiest way to get Enet into the boat house. From there (and a switch if you have multiple devices) it's no different than in your home. I would expect slower Enet speeds, but a camera and a weather station won't take too much. Streaming movies might though

                  Someone mentioned fiber, but it's been a LONG time since I did fiber and it was not a simple task back then. I know it's much easier now, but you still have to contend with bend radius' and terminations of the primary cable (you'll jumper from the fiber termination panel to everything else with premade cables). I was going to do fiber between the house and shelter once but when I looked at the bends into the ground and into and in the buildings, it was pretty tight. It's not all that cheap yet I don't think either.

                  Z

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I have a 600+ road and had excellent success with a UPB for simple automations. I did try a cheap Ethernet over powerline pair of adapters and was not able to establish communication. I did not try very hard. The right equipment may yield better results.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You can get some pretty inexpensive ethernet copper to fiber converters these days...

                      This does gigabit ethernet over multimode up to 550 meters.

                      https://www.amazon.com/Converter-SFP...tronics&sr=1-5

                      You can get 200 meters of MM fiber for about $1 a meter...

                      https://fibercablesdirect.com/om1-mu...ngth-200_meter

                      You are looking at less than $300 in materials.
                      HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 (Windows Server 8.1 on ESXi box)

                      Plug-Ins Enabled:
                      Z-Wave:,RaspberryIO:,AirplaySpeak:,Ecobee:,
                      weatherXML:,JowiHue:,APCUPSD:,PHLocation:,Chromecast:,EasyTr igger:

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by wpiman View Post
                        You can get some pretty inexpensive ethernet copper to fiber converters these days...

                        This does gigabit ethernet over multimode up to 550 meters.

                        https://www.amazon.com/Converter-SFP...tronics&sr=1-5

                        You can get 200 meters of MM fiber for about $1 a meter...

                        https://fibercablesdirect.com/om1-mu...ngth-200_meter

                        You are looking at less than $300 in materials.
                        A few items of note here.

                        1. The media converters have SFP modules with LC connectors. The cable is SC on both ends. The SC connectors on the cable will not work without an SC to LC adapter cable
                        2. The cable is not rated to be burred, not even in conduit. Additionally, you would probably damage the cable pulling it through 500 feet of conduit. The cable the OP referenced is more expensive because it is deigned to be burred and is much tougher than the

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by drhtmal View Post

                          A few items of note here.

                          1. The media converters have SFP modules with LC connectors. The cable is SC on both ends. The SC connectors on the cable will not work without an SC to LC adapter cable
                          2. The cable is not rated to be burred, not even in conduit. Additionally, you would probably damage the cable pulling it through 500 feet of conduit. The cable the OP referenced is more expensive because it is deigned to be burred and is much tougher than the
                          1. True.. but you can get LC connectors for the same price.. That was just for comparison. I also have a plethora of SFPs with varying connectors laying around...
                          2. Where do you see it is not to be buried in a conduit? Direct bury cable is easy and great until the rodents get their teeth into it. I'd recommend a conduit either way. I think pulling a cable through a conduit with a LC header would be pretty touch.

                          You can also add your own headers-- but I've never done it. It used to kind of be a big deal, but I think it is pretty easy nowadays....
                          HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 (Windows Server 8.1 on ESXi box)

                          Plug-Ins Enabled:
                          Z-Wave:,RaspberryIO:,AirplaySpeak:,Ecobee:,
                          weatherXML:,JowiHue:,APCUPSD:,PHLocation:,Chromecast:,EasyTr igger:

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Leaning toward going ahead with the fiber. The other solutions SHOULD work, but SHOULD and WILL are two different propositions. Hate to get done and find out that I don't have connectivity. Now to spec everything out.

                            Assuming I can get a electrician to do the electrical work. So far 5 requests for bids, zero responses.
                            My system is described in my profile.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Exciting choice. Keep us updated.

                              Z

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