US or UK & Europe: CM11, CM12!

[Gogs]

On this side of the pond, Britian, we run on 240 Volts 50Mgz. Europe tends to differ on the voltage, but not the frequency, 50Mgz. (I am not sure I am using the correct abbreviation - Mgz is supposed to stand for Megahertz, ie: the frequency, and lets not get into an argument as to whether Britian is part of europe or not, of course we are, we just don't admit it!)

As HS relies on signals being transmitted over the electrical wiring I would think the above is slightly important.

A well known UK supplier has sugested that CM12's are no longer available, only CM11's. I always understood the difference was that the CM11 was US and the CM12 GB + Europe (appologies to my friends in Europe, but the voltage difference makes a big difference)

To get to my point. What frequecy or Hertz is the power in the US?

I understand the voltage is 110, and you are into 3 phase etc. 3 phase here is reserved for Theatre & Cinema, and enything else that requires large power consumtion.

[MichaelD]

Gogs,


I think that UK and the rest of Europe are all going to 230v, we are probably already there in UK.

US are on 60Hz? For people that import an Ocelot from the US there is a optional chip to convert from 60 to 50, so it must make a difference to something.

But surely when they put the UK 13A plug on a CM11, they will do whatever is needed to make it handle our voltage and frequency. Is there a suffix on the code, making it a CM11U for UK, and CM11A for US?

[jon00]

Gogs,

Uk, Europe, Australia etc all use 230V at 50Hz (Hertz)

America, Canada, Japan etc use 110V at 60Hz

The 11 after the CM signified 110V and the 12 230V. The last letter signifies the country outlet type. Hence A for America, U for United Kingdom.

So we have CM11A for America - 110 60Hz with their flat pins & round earth and the CM12U for the UK - 230V 50Hz with our 13A plug config.

That's how it used to work!

[toscal]

Hi there,
The UK is on 240 Volts 50 Hz its Hertz not mega-hertz.
Europe is on 220 Volts 50 Hz
USA is on 110 Volts 60 Hz. (And some newer homes have a 230 volt connection as well. See the website link at the end of this message.)
These are what are called the RMS voltages multiply by 1.414 to get peak voltages. This value is the square root of 2.
3 phase can be made available to the average home user in the UK but you will need a good reason to have it i.e. machine shop in back garden etc.
Virtually everything designed to work on 240 will work on 220 volt. I know this as having moved to Spain from the UK.
You might want to look at this website http://users.pandora.be/worldstandar...ty.htm#voltage

[Gogs]

Hi Micheal & John,

One thing I love about this new BBS is I can get replies before I log off!

I think that UK and the rest of Europe are all going to 230v, we are probably already there in UK.

Nope, if you put a test meter onto the Mains you will find it is still between 240 and 250 Volts.

US are on 60Hz? For people that import an Ocelot from the US there is a optional chip to convert from 60 to 50, so it must make a difference to something.

It's the frequency. HS works on transmitting signals on the back of our electricity, it's listening to, or rather it is not, the interface is listening to a frequency.

But surely when they put the UK 13A plug on a CM11, they will do whatever is needed to make it handle our voltage and frequency. Is there a suffix on the code, making it a CM11U for UK, and CM11A for US?

Micheal, have you ever plugged in a 100V hair drier into a 240V socket, I assure you it's slightly more than you suggest.

[rocco]

50Hz vs 60Hz only matters for three phase.

When an X10 device transmits a 120Khz burst, it does so at the "zero-crossing" of the line voltage. It normally doesn't matter whether it's 50 or 60 Hz, because with single phase systems (all 230 volt residential systems) and split-phase systems (110 volt residential systems), all zero-crossings occur at the same time.

In three phase systems, there are three sets of zero-crossings, 120 degrees out of phase with each other. So high end systems, like the Ocelot, transmit X10 bursts three times per half cycle (every 60 degrees), so as to be visible to the other phases (with a suitable phase coupler).

But 60 degrees of 60Hz is 2.77 milliseconds, and 60 degrees of 50Hz is 3.33 milliseconds. So the difference between 50Hz and 60Hz is simply the delay used to transmit the additional bursts for three phase.

[jon00]

Gogs,

MichaelD is correct. The UK as traditionally been 240-250V whereas Europe 220V. Because of the EU, it was decided that 230V would become the Union's standard voltage.

That's the fact but whether it has actually happened in all areas in UK?Europe is a different matter!

As for plugging in a 110V hairdryer in a 240V socket - You get an extremely quick blow-dry or perhaps you could re-name it as the first electrically powered blow torch!!!

[speedy]

The UK mains spec is 230v AC 50Hz (Hertz) +-10% on the Voltage...

So the minimum Voltage should be no lower than 207 volts and the maximum no higher than 253 volts

However the typical voltage here is more like 240 volts upwards, this is due to the legacy equipment in the UK mains distribution systems. The 230 spec was introduced to bring us in line with Europe.

[Gogs]

John & Toscal

Hi there,
The UK is on 240 Volts 50 Hz its Hertz not mega-hertz.
Europe is on 220 Volts 50 Hz
USA is on 110 Volts 60 Hz. (And some newer homes have a 230 volt connection as well. See the website link at the end of this message.)
These are what are called the RMS voltages multiply by 1.414 to get peak voltages. This value is the square root of 2.
3 phase can be made available to the average home user in the UK but you will need a good reason to have it i.e. machine shop in back garden etc.
Virtually everything designed to work on 240 will work on 220 volt. I know this as having moved to Spain from the UK.
You might want to look at this website http://users.pandora.be/worldstandar...ty.htm#voltage

I will take a look at you website Toscal, I have not used those type of equations since I was, lets say many years younger. I wonder, what is your proffesion? Please read on. BTW.!

its Hertz not mega-hertz.

I said I'd got it wrong, I'm both RF and AC, RF being the main field!

I am struggling to keep up with replies, The old BBS "Eve" was never this quick.

John, and Toscal,

The voltage does not matter, the frequency does if you are sending signals from a transmitter to a receiver.

When I started X10, alas it was not originally with HS, but with Zeus, I was supplied a CM11. I had bit problems, eventually returned it and got a CM12 which is still working today.

All I was trying to establish is does a CM11 work over here, is there a difference, why should CM12 production stop.

[Gogs]

OK Guys, I cannot keep up

The question was ment to be will CM11's work here?

Or do we need the modified CM12?

[Gogs]

Hi Speedy,

You are 100% correct. the internal power supply on the boat only provides 110V 50Hertz. and all UK equipment works fine.

This tread was not meant to be about this, but so what, I'm learning!

[toscal]

Ok,
Since many people here in Europe modify US X10 devices I would assume that a cm11 could be modified to work on 220 to 240 volt systems.
This site is quite interesting http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall...490/index.html . He says he has connected a CM11 to his system he lives in the Netherlands.
There is also bits about frequency and three phase etc.
Hope this clears up a few things. No doubt by the time I have finished typing there will be three more replies.
Gog my background is electronics.

[MichaelD]

Sorry Gogs, my reply did sound a bit off. What I meant was that there is a reasonably big market for X10 in the UK, so there will still be something for us, and if they put on the 13A plug/pins which is only for the UK, then they must be sure it will work on our voltage etc.

Hey though, I haven't tried the hairdryer trick, can you let me know if you plan to do it, it sounds really exciting

Michael

[Phill]

I'm thinking of trying this trick with a "leaf blower" for the garden as this could save me hours (Time better spent automating).

They have robo lawn mowers, what about a robo leaf blower / mulcher....

Phill

[Gogs]

Thanks for all the repies, it's made for interesting reading and I learned a lot.

The hair dryer comment was based on an incident when I worked in tourism. An American tourist had plugged her 110V (US bought) hair dryer into the bedroom socket in a hotel in Stratford. The hair dryer proceeded to go into meltdown before blowing the fuse, she then proceeded to claim compensation from the management for destroying her dryer!