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NEWS: Z-Wave Long Range protocol supports up to 2,000 smart devices on a mesh network

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    NEWS: Z-Wave Long Range protocol supports up to 2,000 smart devices on a mesh network

    Things could get interesting in 2021...

    https://venturebeat.com/2020/09/08/z...-mesh-network/

    #2
    This is interesting news. It will be years before this is main stream. I doubt it will increase the range of existing zwave devices.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by drhtmal View Post
      This is interesting news. It will be years before this is main stream. I doubt it will increase the range of existing zwave devices.
      Well, it depends. Consider an existing device. If the new devices, which there is no reason to believe they would not be, are repeaters, then it is very possible that existing zwave devices can be put near one of these long range puppies and it will be the neighbor of the long range unit, and the long range until will repeat the signal down the line.

      So yes, if you know which ones are which, it will (virtually) increase the range.

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        #4
        Originally posted by drhtmal View Post
        This is interesting news. It will be years before this is main stream. I doubt it will increase the range of existing zwave devices.
        Just like Z-wave plus, it will not increase the distance of devices based on the previous older technologies. But proper placement could allow one to utilize older devices where they normally couldn't. Let's say you have another building on your property that is too far away from your controller, folks currently solve this by extending their TCP/IP network and installing additional Z-Net interfaces. Instead one could:

        Z-wave Regular Devices <---> Z-wave LR Device <-------------------> Z-Wave LRD <---> Z-wave Controller

        I have my Z-wave network extended out to my detached garage by having one Z-wave Plus light switch in my house towards the backyard and another Z-Wave Plus light switch in the garage. I've then been able to re-purpose a lot of my old Z-Wave regular sensors in the garage with no communication problems.

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          #5
          Personally I don't have much use for that. I have plenty of z-wave devices that act as repeaters so range isn't an issue. And while I have a lot of z-wave devices I don't expect to go beyond 200 anytime soon. However, I am really looking forward when HS comes out with their z-wave stick that is based on the 700 series chipset. It will allow battery powered devices that will last for several years.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by mulu View Post
            Personally I don't have much use for that. I have plenty of z-wave devices that act as repeaters so range isn't an issue. And while I have a lot of z-wave devices I don't expect to go beyond 200 anytime soon. However, I am really looking forward when HS comes out with their z-wave stick that is based on the 700 series chipset. It will allow battery powered devices that will last for several years.
            I think to get the benefit for battery operated devices you'll need to replace them with versions that have the new 700 chipset.

            One nice feature of 700 is the increased available size of it's firmware which means you can get more device features, but again the device itself needs replacing.
            HS4 Pro on Shuttle NC10U, Win10; Z-NET
            Number of Devices: 449
            Number of Events: 210

            Plug-Ins: Arduino, BLLock, DirecTv, EasyTrigger, Honeywell WiFi Thermostat, MeiHarmonyHub, PHLocation2, Pushover 3P, UltraM1G3, WeatherXML, Worx Landroid, Z-Wave

            External applications: Homebridge-homeseer, Geofency, EgiGeoZone.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by jmaddox View Post

              I think to get the benefit for battery operated devices you'll need to replace them with versions that have the new 700 chipset.

              One nice feature of 700 is the increased available size of it's firmware which means you can get more device features, but again the device itself needs replacing.
              Correct, both the device and controller have to support it. There are a few devices out there that do have the new chipset.

              Comment


                #8
                No just distance increase but number of hops could be decreased, which would help with the perceived responsiveness of devices.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by rge View Post
                  No just distance increase but number of hops could be decreased, which would help with the perceived responsiveness of devices.
                  That's an interesting point. Will a controller optimize routes based on number of hops or signal strength? I suspect it's something in between. Also I wonder if the routing is static, i.e. the controller assigns a particular route and if a node within that route breaks then the communication is lost until the controller is instructed to do an 'optimization'.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Nope, routing is dynamic based on the known neighbors. That's why the bigger the mesh the more reliable it will become.


                    One only has to force an optimization when the controller or a node doesn't know about the respective neighbors for a given node.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      There’s a comprehensive summary of Z-Wave network concepts here:

                      https://www.vesternet.com/pages/unde...-nodes-devices

                      I don’t think there is a mandatory definition of “best” route, it is up to the controller software. But I’m pretty sure minimising hops would have a high priority since each is a potential point of failure and delay.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hmm, so if a device sends out a message there might be a dozen or more nodes repeating that message, etc, etc? So for a single message to get to the controller there might be 100+ devices sending out the same message? It certainly makes it more reliable but that is a lot of messages being sent out. Also how do they avoid loops? Maybe there is some message ID and a device keeps that ID for a certain amount of time and makes sure it doesn't send it out again when it already did?

                        PS: Are you from Switzerland?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mulu View Post
                          Hmm, so if a device sends out a message there might be a dozen or more nodes repeating that message, etc, etc? So for a single message to get to the controller there might be 100+ devices sending out the same message?
                          A 100+ devices? Not likely unless you are talking about an installation consisting of ten's of thousands square feet. Normal network traffic is not blasted/broadcast, all messages are sent on predetermined routes (up to three different routes per attempt). Since device range is typically dozens of feet per node, one can cover a large distance in a house using about 3 to 4 nodes per route. I'm reaching from the controller in my house to my standalone garage in my backyard using only 3 nodes.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            That link from rge was pretty informative. So basically the nodes determine what other nodes are neighbors and then reports it to the controller. The controller than first tries one route and if that doesn't work tries up to two more alternatives. If that fails then it reports an error. The article doesn't address the opposite way, i.e. if a node wants to report a change in status. But I assume it works in a similar way, i.e. it first tries to send the message to one of the neighbors and if it doesn't receive an acknowledgment then it will try another neighbor. So the nodes are actually also quite 'smart'.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              mulu , yep. There are other considerations to take into account for successful routes, such as whether a node is a "listening node" (fully powered) or non-listening node (battery powered). Battery powered nodes are never used for routers/repeaters since you'll never know when they are awake.

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