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NEWS: Z-Wave Long Range protocol supports up to 2,000 smart devices on a mesh network

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    #16
    I am not a z-wave expert. Maybe there is a Dr. Z-Wave that can diagnose and shed light on these things.

    Z-Wave Plus was backwards compatible with Z-Wave. Despite the backwards compatibility of Z-Wave Plus, Z-Wave devices were not able to take advantage of all the Z-Wave Plus features.

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      #17
      Originally posted by drhtmal View Post
      I am not a z-wave expert. Maybe there is a Dr. Z-Wave that can diagnose and shed light on these things.

      Z-Wave Plus was backwards compatible with Z-Wave. Despite the backwards compatibility of Z-Wave Plus, Z-Wave devices were not able to take advantage of all the Z-Wave Plus features.
      That's how it usually is. There is backwards compatibility but you can't take advantage of the new features. Same applies for the 700 chipset. I am waiting for a new controller from HS.

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        #18
        drhtmal why/how could older devices be able to do what newer devices do? If that was the case, then why would anyone buy the newer devices??!!

        Are you familiar with the Ethernet network standard? At first the standard transmitted data as fast as 10Mbps (mega bits per second). Devices were manufactured to that capability.
        Then they came up with what was known as "Fast Ethernet" which now defined the top speed as 100Mbps. But they also made sure that the new standard could exist with older devices. Which meant when plugging in the newer, faster devices into a network one could still use the slower devices they already invested in. The faster devices could still operate with the slower devices.

        The same concept applies to Z-wave versus Z-Wave Plus. In Z-wave Plus they increased the transmit speed and increased the size of the radio transceivers (to increase the distance). Both of these are physical changes in the silicon microchips.

        You can't make the older devices behave like newer devices without physical alterations. These are not simple software changes.

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          #19
          Originally posted by TC1 View Post
          drhtmal why/how could older devices be able to do what newer devices do? If that was the case, then why would anyone buy the newer devices??!!

          Are you familiar with the Ethernet network standard?
          I have done some networking in my career so I am a little bit familiar with Ethernet and maybe even some Token Ring. I might even have some experience with a little 10BASE5 and 10BASE2 in my 30 year career.

          I never said that Z-Wave or Z-Wave Plus devices would not be interoperable with this new Z-Wave Long Range protocol. I also never said "older devices *would* be able to do what newer devices do."

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            #20
            Originally posted by mulu View Post

            That's how it usually is. There is backwards compatibility but you can't take advantage of the new features. Same applies for the 700 chipset. I am waiting for a new controller from HS.
            The 700 chipset was announced several years ago. How many devices with 700 series chip sets are on the market? I would not bet on seeing any Z-Wave Long Range devices for a while.

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              #21
              Originally posted by drhtmal View Post

              The 700 chipset was announced several years ago. How many devices with 700 series chip sets are on the market? I would not bet on seeing any Z-Wave Long Range devices for a while.
              How many years ago was the 700 chipset released? I don't think it was that long ago but honestly I don't know. Frankly, I don't care, either. What I do care is that it has advantages, especially battery life and there are devices out there that have this chipset. Yes, there are still very few devices that use this chipset but there are ones that I care about. And to take advantage of that I need a 700 series z-wave stick/controller. It will also add more revenue to HS because I am definitely going to buy that stick once they release it.

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                #22
                Originally posted by mulu View Post
                Hmm, so if a device sends out a message there might be a dozen or more nodes repeating that message, etc, etc? So for a single message to get to the controller there might be 100+ devices sending out the same message? It certainly makes it more reliable but that is a lot of messages being sent out. Also how do they avoid loops? Maybe there is some message ID and a device keeps that ID for a certain amount of time and makes sure it doesn't send it out again when it already did?

                PS: Are you from Switzerland?
                The controller tells the nodes their best route (s?) when optimisation is done, they don't have to work it out themselves and I suspect they can't / shouldn't because they don't know what optimisation rules the controller is applying. The Z-Wave plugin (at least running on RaZberry) has two optimisation options, one of which is "Optimize a Network, No Return Route Changes". I'd guess this helps with battery devices - writing the route into flash probably takes quite a lot of juice relatively speaking.

                Also the messages from the controller have the routing information in them, the node could use that at least for replies, but I don't know if they do or if they always use the saved route. This also means a node only stores its own route to the controller, if it's forwarding a message it gets told exactly where to send it and not just the destination.

                Yes, I'm in Switzerland.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by drhtmal View Post

                  I have done some networking in my career so I am a little bit familiar with Ethernet and maybe even some Token Ring. I might even have some experience with a little 10BASE5 and 10BASE2 in my 30 year career.

                  I never said that Z-Wave or Z-Wave Plus devices would not be interoperable with this new Z-Wave Long Range protocol. I also never said "older devices *would* be able to do what newer devices do."
                  You're taking what you said out of the context of your original statement, you said exactly:

                  "Despite the backwards compatibility of Z-Wave Plus, Z-Wave devices were not able to take advantage of all the Z-Wave Plus features."

                  Which implies that somehow the older devices should have gained new features or capabilities. If that's not what you meant, then why make the statement at all, to state the obvious?

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by mulu View Post

                    How many years ago was the 700 chipset released? I don't think it was that long ago but honestly I don't know. Frankly, I don't care, either. What I do care is that it has advantages, especially battery life and there are devices out there that have this chipset. Yes, there are still very few devices that use this chipset but there are ones that I care about. And to take advantage of that I need a 700 series z-wave stick/controller. It will also add more revenue to HS because I am definitely going to buy that stick once they release it.
                    I think the 700 series chip reveled in the fall of 2018 and was announced in December of 2018. See Dr. Z-Waves' (see he really does exist ) blog here https://drzwave.blog/category/z-wave...ollers/page/2/

                    I don't disagree that the 700 series is far superior to the 500 and 100 chips in many ways. It has more memory, a different processor architecture (32-bit ARM CPU) that is easier to program and debug, more I/O, longer radio range, and as you mentioned a better battery life. You want it, I want it, we all want it.

                    The point I was making is that it takes time to get new product out, we all should know that. The 700 series was announced almost 2 years ago and we are just recently seeing devices with this new chip. Aeotec announced a 700 series z-stick at CES in January 2020. I don't think we can purchase this new 700 series z-stick yet.

                    Just as we are starting to see real devices with the 700 series chip several years after it was announced, I don't expect to see real devices using this new long range protocol any time soon. It is just a statement based on track record. Don't read anything more into it than that.

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                      #25
                      Just to put the 700 series adoption into better perspective....

                      Up until the present, there was only manufacturer of Z-wave chips in the world, Silicon Labs, As one can imagine, this affected price, adoption rates, and other political/business issues behind the scenes.

                      Silicon Labs realized their little monopoly would eventually spell their doom, so they finally open sourced the Z-wave standard. As Rich from HST has previously stated, it used to cost thousands of dollars just to get a peek at all the supporting documentation and development kits for the Z-wave standard. Now that other companies can fabricate the chips, it will hopefully increase innovation and lower prices. Unfortunately as of today, no one else has begun that process yet.

                      https://www.techhive.com/article/351...-standard.html

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