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    Power and UPS Management

    This is a continuation of a discussion that started here: https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/ho...e2#post1431141

    Since it applies to HS systems in general and not specifically using HS as an alarm system, it's being split out.

    - BIOS Settings (Turn On, Stay Off, Last State) for when AC is applied
    - Using external circuitry to power on a system
    - Synchronizing system power up across multiple UPSes

    #2
    Originally posted by Corvl1 View Post
    Sure:

    This is the relay:
    https://www.reichelt.de/multifunktio...82176.html?r=1

    -Programmed when power recieved on the relays the timer starts. After 10 minutes the outputs are " shorted". These outputs I connected on the motherboard of the computer "power-pins".
    -the computer is on the ups and shuts down when 10 minutes left on the UPS.
    -the relay is directly connected to the mains (not via UPS).

    When power is restored, the relay-timer starts automatically. But the computer does not start up yet.

    When the programmed time (10 minutes) is over, the second coil of the relays connects both pins of the power-on on the motherboard. Than the computer starts.

    I hope I wrote it clear enough.

    Cor
    Thanks Corvl1 I missed when you said time-relay and now understand what you mean by that.

    mminehan - I suspect a number of users have complex systems that require special power recovery sequencing. Hopefully we can share some ideas here. One I'm looking into is Wake On LAN and using that function to Power Up systems. At least one BIOS I looked at allowed WOL to power on the system, even if it had been gracefully shutdown.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by kenm View Post
      One I'm looking into is Wake On LAN and using that function to Power Up systems. At least one BIOS I looked at allowed WOL to power on the system, even if it had been gracefully shutdown.
      Yes, this works for 2 of my PCs (one running HS and the other Blue Iris). You have to enable WOL in the BIOS, usually something like 'wake from PCIE' or something like that depending on the motherboard. They do have static IPs too. Homeseer needs to one of the last devices to boot as there are multiple systems it communicates with that need to be up and running.

      But you need a device/system to send the initial magic packets. So at least one system needs to be able manage booting properly, even when power is restored during a graceful shutdown.

      And for me I also need to allow time for networking gear (Ubiquiti in our case) to boot up as you can't send magic packets if the network switch is not running.

      I'd be keen to hear how other magane all this.
      iCore5 Win 10 Pro x64 SSD

      HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 Windows

      BLOccupied:,Device History:,Yamaha:,UltraMon3:,mcsXap:,Restart:,UltraNetatmo3:, UltraM1G3:,Ultra1Wire3:,BLBackup:,Harmony Hub:,DoorBird:,UltraECM3:,Nanoleaf 3P:,UltraRachio3:,Z-Wave:,SDJ-Health:,BLGarbage:,Blue-Iris:,Chromecast:,Pushover 3P:,EasyTrigger:

      Comment


        #4
        There are devices you can utilize to mitigate that : https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=mini+up...s_ts-oa-p_10_8

        And : https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/ups/all

        Eman.
        TinkerLand : Life's Choices,"No One Size Fits All"

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by kenm View Post

          mminehan One I'm looking into is Wake On LAN and using that function to Power Up systems. At least one BIOS I looked at allowed WOL to power on the system, even if it had been gracefully shutdown.
          I tried this as well initially, a walltablet on which I installed an app to send the magic package and it kept running on the battery for about 5 hours, The issue I had was, it could not detect when the power was back again and also when the power was steady back again. Than I was thinking I need something to physically press the power button on the computer when the power is back for at least 10 minutes. That's where the relays came in, it mimics a press on the power button, but only after a delay to make sure the power has come back steady , and also the modem/switches/Raspberry Pi (with Zwave dongle) all have come up before Homeseer is started.

          Cor

          Comment


            #6
            Here are some thoughts on it...

            Arduino to send the WOL:
            https://github.com/a7md0/WakeOnLan
            https://github.com/teravice/Arduino-WOL

            Arduino for watchdog (minor changes needed for this application):
            https://www.shortn0tes.com/2018/02/d...-watchdog.html
            https://makezine.com/projects/usb-wa...-with-arduino/

            Timer for watchdog:
            https://www.instructables.com/How-to...atchdog-Timer/

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Eman View Post
              Is there something specific you're pointing to? I'm trying to understand if there's a special function with those UPSes?

              Corvl1 I was looking at doing something similar except with a Raspberry Pi that could run for days(?) on battery power. I've shelved that for now since my recent experience with the PI and poor reliability has me questioning its use. AC detection isn't too difficult but, I agree the "steady state" is.

              Something I've been looking into is a feature that APC used to have that allowed a single, large UPS to be network controlled and monitored and also allowed it to control the state of systems that were attached to it.

              Comment


                #8
                If you are looking to do a project without power loss you can check out the devices from here : https://datakom.com.tr/#
                Am having trouble pulling all the sources together but say "think Solar : https://www.amazon.co.uk/MOES-Transf...FGP9KJND900QRK" In other words no power loss should occur!
                I bought a device (Datakom DKG 175) similar to this one DKG 309 : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Datakom-DKG-309-Generator-Automatic-Failure/dp/B08BQH3QRX/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?dchild=1&keywords=datakom+DKG+175&qid=16046 18037&sr=8-2-fkmr0 But never put it to use yet. It acts as a power transsfer relay from mains to Solar and in between you have a voltage Conditioner TPS : Image below

                Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20201105_234353.jpg Views:	0 Size:	78.6 KB ID:	1431352


                So your critical systems can't even detect any change in the power loss


                Eman.
                TinkerLand : Life's Choices,"No One Size Fits All"

                Comment


                  #9
                  Another option, that I am currently testing, is an 'intelligent PDU' (HP AF525A - https://h20195.www2.hpe.com/v2/defau...en&oid=4206914). I got it cheap on an eBay type website here in NZ. This allows control of power outlets as well as delayed start up for individual outlets.

                  So for example on when the UPS restores power to the PDU (grid online and battery above minimum charge) it can start the network switch first, then gateways and NAS, then other devices and finally HomeSeer. Each outlet can be programmed to go live with various delays.

                  But what I still need to figure out is how to boot a PC that has gracefully shutdown during a brief outage but the UPS never reached minimum battery and shutdown (i.e. the AC to the PC was never actually lost). I need some device that can detect the AC was down briefly and send a WOL magic packet after a set time.

                  Corvl1 I'd been keen to see how your delay switch works. And what if the PC is still running? Pressing the power button would shut it down.

                  My synology NAS can send WOL magic packets. I have tested this on the shutdown HS machine. Boots from the power off state.

                  The trick is getting everything to work in the right order.

                  I wonder if there is a raspberry pi project that detects main power and pings devices at set intervals sending magic packets if there is no response.

                  Or something like this looks interesting: https://www.digital-loggers.com/222.html

                  M
                  iCore5 Win 10 Pro x64 SSD

                  HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 Windows

                  BLOccupied:,Device History:,Yamaha:,UltraMon3:,mcsXap:,Restart:,UltraNetatmo3:, UltraM1G3:,Ultra1Wire3:,BLBackup:,Harmony Hub:,DoorBird:,UltraECM3:,Nanoleaf 3P:,UltraRachio3:,Z-Wave:,SDJ-Health:,BLGarbage:,Blue-Iris:,Chromecast:,Pushover 3P:,EasyTrigger:

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Some motherboards (this : MINIX N42-C) have the bios which can start after power loss.

                    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20201106_092915_HDR.jpg Views:	0 Size:	68.2 KB ID:	1431401


                    And if you decided to use a Raspberry PI 4, The system will power up using the PoE hat : https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B084ZPDP...NsaWNrPXRydWU=


                    Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2020-11-06 Seamuing Raspberry Pi 4B POE Hat Power Over Ethernet Amazon co uk Electronics.png
Views:	110
Size:	298.5 KB
ID:	1431405

                    And more on raspberry projects here : https://uk.pi-supply.com/products/ne...eid=ed8e640cbe


                    Eman.
                    TinkerLand : Life's Choices,"No One Size Fits All"

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Eman View Post
                      Some motherboards (this : MINIX N42-C) have the bios which can start after power loss.
                      Eman, the purpose of this thread is to discuss, among other related things, means of dealing with the issue that when on UPS and with orderly shutdown managed by the UPS, the machine doesn't experience a power outage and therefore doesn't restart based on this bios setting. See this post. This thread was started due to getting OT there.
                      -Wade

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by cc4005 View Post

                        Eman, the purpose of this thread is to discuss, among other related things, means of dealing with the issue that when on UPS and with orderly shutdown managed by the UPS, the machine doesn't experience a power outage and therefore doesn't restart based on this bios setting. See this post. This thread was started due to getting OT there.
                        True,

                        But in case of the thread you have refered me to I likewise would refer you back to the same thread : post # 2 and post # 19 of the same thread.
                        As regards to this thread the OP starts off trying to solve a bios issue which in my post # 7 is dismissed and when I try with other ideas, they are not so good
                        • So the question, is it the Alarm issue, Power Outage or a Bios issue
                        • Please state which machine you don't want to loose power and I believe I gave some solutions above.
                        • If you have a Synology NAS it can act as or part of the alarm system and a plugin to notify HomeSeer for extra automation
                        • Source : https://www.techradar.com/au/how-to/...llance-station <snip>/, the app I/O port allows integration with security systems, smoke detectors, doorbells and locks and even LED lighting for a true smart home experience.

                        Eman
                        TinkerLand : Life's Choices,"No One Size Fits All"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mminehan View Post
                          Corvl1 I'd been keen to see how your delay switch works. And what if the PC is still running? Pressing the power button would shut it down.
                          It is quite straight forward;
                          Click image for larger version  Name:	2020-11-06 18_01_28-MFZ12DDX_23001004-1_gb.pdf - Foxit Reader.jpg Views:	0 Size:	15.7 KB ID:	1431438

                          B1 and A1 are both connected to the mains (L) , and A2 to the neutral (N).
                          15 and 18 are connected to the mainboard pins "power" (no electricity on pins 15-18 , they are just shorted in this case).

                          The relay is programmed:
                          Click image for larger version  Name:	2020-11-06 18_01_49-MFZ12DDX_23001004-1_gb.pdf - Foxit Reader.jpg Views:	0 Size:	27.6 KB ID:	1431439
                          as "IA" (t1=10 minutes, t2=1 second, the 1 second mimics a physicall press on the power button); as soon as power is applied ( B1A1-A2) the timer starts, in my case 10 minutes. After 10 minutes 15-18 are "shorted" which is the same as pressing the power-on button.
                          If the power is not steady , the relay automatically shuts down again untill power is applied again, that's why I took 10 minutes ( also to first power up modem, switches etc).

                          The relay is connected to a normall power outlet , and the computer to an UPS, since the UPS will not completely be empty after the computer had it's "gracefull shutdown".

                          In window 10 you need to go to the power setting menu and select :" power button": do nothing.
                          Click image for larger version  Name:	2020-11-06 18_10_49-System Settings.jpg Views:	0 Size:	43.9 KB ID:	1431440

                          Comment


                            #14
                            @mminehan,

                            The trick is getting everything to work in the right order.
                            I have my desktop started by my Android Tablet using WoL and Tasker. The event is a chain linked to other events from HomeSeer or other systems in setup (Node-RED, ioBroker and MQTT). So Tasker sets the time for when to fire the WoL



                            Eman
                            TinkerLand : Life's Choices,"No One Size Fits All"

                            Comment


                              #15
                              How does your android tablet know when to start with starting everything up?
                              Does your tablet automatically start up after a power loss and the battery has drained, and than start up everything via tasker?

                              My android tablet stayed off when the battery was drained and power was applied again.

                              Cor

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