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    Secure and non secure includes

    What is the difference in these two methods. I always though you got limited functionality with non secure. But reading the thread about the new plugs that would imply the opposite.

    can anybody confirm please?

    #2
    Z-Wave by nature is secure due to the inclusion into the network. The secure network encrypts the Z-Wave traffic from a secure device and to the Z-Wave controller and back. This causes reduced range and slower Z-Wave communications so I always recommend using the non secure method if the device supports this.
    -Rupp
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      #3
      What Rupp said.

      To the best of my knowledge, the only time a Z-wave network has been breached was using a proof-of-concept exploit during the inclusion process. In other words, someone would have to be sitting close enough to your house and sniffing traffic at the very moment you include a device into your Z-wave controller.

      Again, to the best of my knowledge, a burglar can not simply pull up to your house and instantly exploit your Z-wave network, nor has it ever been reported.

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        #4
        Originally posted by TC1 View Post
        What Rupp said.

        To the best of my knowledge, the only time a Z-wave network has been breached was using a proof-of-concept exploit during the inclusion process. In other words, someone would have to be sitting close enough to your house and sniffing traffic at the very moment you include a device into your Z-wave controller.

        Again, to the best of my knowledge, a burglar can not simply pull up to your house and instantly exploit your Z-wave network, nor has it ever been reported.
        As easy as X10 would be to hack I've never heard of anyone reporting this either. I have heard where people stand outside and unlock doors which is why Alexa and GH changed this.
        -Rupp
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          #5
          Or thought of another way, being insecure isn't a problem until it is.

          How many people use the same password for all their various services? It wasn't a problem.... until it did become one.

          How likely is it that doing any kind of payment or online banking online via HTTP instead of HTTPS that someone is going to sniff your traffic... my gosh soooooooo unlikely, but you need a brain scan if you think you should be sending such data unencrypted.... or any data, that's why the entire internet has moved over to HTTPS now.

          Z-Wave is the same... it's really not a huuuuuuge deal, until someday someone publishes insanely easy steps on the dark web and Z-Wave networks and the Z-Wave name is run into the ground. If Z-Wave grows it is inevitable - right now it's not a big deal because in the real world amongst normal citizens the response is "Z-Wave what?", it's security from irrelevancy.

          Do I secure include everything? Unfortunately no.... the whole "Z-Wave works with everything" is a load of garbage, the platform is a dogs breakfast of compatibility problems and lies. Including on any platform including HomeSeer is a bag of hurt - things can not work, updates are needed to specifically support them even though it's all allegedly built to standards, etc... going secure include is 10x worse to the point of basically not working. Over the air updates.... yeah pretty much unsupported, meaning that very feature has rendered it impossible to do firmware updates on devices unless you happen to run a precise supported environment (Fibaro devices via Fibaro Home Centre, Aeotec via HomeSeer, etc).

          Though ironically for one device I own non-secure include is heavily broken, secure include is also broken but slightly less so making the device actually usable... and thus I have to secure include that.

          But it's all good apparently 👍. Seriously it's not too bad, but mainstream ready this is not no normal person would even consider having to deal with such things

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            #6
            Ah very interesting. I have added everything securely. But 3 external sockets, which if hacked would turn lights on and off, but have very intermittent connections. I’ll give it a try, thanks everybody.

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