Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ZWave or WiFi or ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    ZWave or WiFi or ?

    Hope this is the right place for this! I have a new HomeTroller Zee. I didn't move my old system with me (Wink) so I only have a few light bulbs and some zwave switches. I have an opportunity to basically start from scratch. I want to automate every light switch and fan switch in the house. I know Zwave works pretty well and I have had zero problems with ZigBee light bulbs. I don't necessarily want CHEAP. I have a bit of a budget. I don't need the Cadillac, but rather a good Chevy! I will have WiFi that will support 200+ devices if WiFi is the choice. What's everyone doing now?

    #2
    There have been many lively discussions regarding this topic. They usually end up as a Ford vs. Chevy argument. Rather than rehash that here you might try a search of the forum.

    Comment


      #3
      Here never wanted wireless anything (automation / media). My current in wall switches are all UPB (powerline on steroids) that have worked well now for many years. I have a place ZWave and zigbee controllers and have played. Still using X10. Wired many sensors to the alarm panel (contact / PIR / external).

      Most recently have decided to do house #2 (which I do not live in) with all wireless devices and using MQTT integration. It is working well for me. That and the wireless switches (modded to be removed off the internet) are very reasonably priced when purchased in bulk. Recently integrated Ring alarm, Alexa devices, Wireless doorbell (I was never one to use wireless cameras for anything) and it is working fine for me. I did add some catXX cabling to every room of the house which was easy to do from the basement. This was more of an exercise then anything else.

      The base network infrastructure is identical using Ruckus WAPs, Managed POE switches, PFSense Firewall for both houses.
      - Pete

      Auto mator
      Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
      Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
      HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 20.04 / VB W7e Jetway JBC420U591
      Fanless IntelĀ® Celeron N3160 SoC 8Gb
      HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 20.04/VB W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb
      HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets

      X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Smartthings hub, Hubitat Hub, and Home Assistant

      Comment


        #4
        In my experience (and this is where post #2 is imminently correct) I'm really leaning towards WiFi and Zigbee, although I began with Z-Wave and currently have more of that in my network than WiFi. Zigbee will happen when I have time to build a Raspbee controller and install it.

        Z-Wave

        Pros:
        • Can form a strong mesh
        • Z-Wave Plus and the soon-to-be on the market hardware is good
        • Ease of Z-Wave Plus inclusion
        Cons:
        • If it doesn't work it can be a bear to troubleshoot
        • Expensive
        • Z-Wave certification is not straightforward - there is no Gestalt in Z-wave; a device is no stronger than the intersection of its command classes and those of the controller. Put another way, a device has certified features and a controller has certified features, but the only ones that will work are the ones that are common to both devices. And not all similar devices are the same (e.g., not all thermostats have the same features).
        • Z-Wave (not plus) inclusion can be very aggravating


        Zigbee Caveat: I don't have personal experience with these, yet, but considering adoption, this is my take:
        Pros
        • Reasonably Priced
        • Create a strong mesh
        • Excel at battery-powered devices
        Cons:
        • Is not yet well supported by HST
        • At this time, best practices suggest becoming familiar with Raspberry Pi and Conbee


        WiFi

        Pros:
        • Very reasonably priced
        • Probably use existing WiFi equipment, but if not this is a con
        Cons:
        • If you don't have existing hp in WiFi, you must install it
        • AFAIK, there are no battery-powered units
        • You may want or need to become familiar with VLANs
        I personally think that the best practice is to tailor the three technologies to your needs, rather than get into that Ford, Chevy, Toyota argument. They all have strengths and weaknesses. YMMV.
        HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 4.2.6.0
        Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - Desktop

        Enabled Plug-Ins
        AK Google Calendar 3.0.0.45,AK Smart Device 3.0.0.6,AK Weather 4.0.1.77,AmbientWeather 3.0.1.9,Big5 1.38.0.0,BLBackup 2.0.63.0,BLGData 3.0.55.0,BLLock 3.0.38.0,BLPlex 2.0.22.0,BLUPS 2.0.26.0,Device History 3.2.0.2,EasyTrigger 3.0.0.74,HSBuddy 3.25.614.1,mcsMQTT 5.21.4.1,MeiHarmonyHub 3.1.0.22,NetCAM 3.0.0.14,PHLocation 3.0.1.109,Restart 1.0.0.7,SDJ-Health 3.1.0.3,SDJ-VStat 3.1.0.7,TPLinkSmartHome 19.10.7.1,UltraCID3 3.0.6681.34300,UltraSighthoundVideo3 3.0.5960.36744,,Z-Wave 3.0.2.0

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by drhtmal View Post
          There have been many lively discussions regarding this topic. They usually end up as a Ford vs. Chevy argument. Rather than rehash that here you might try a search of the forum.
          Agreed. I had only been a member of this forum for about an hour when I got the bright idea to ask the question. I had no idea how incredibly thorough this forum was at the time. I know the answer is subjective, but I was hoping there were some definitive answers. Such is life. Thanks!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ewkearns View Post
            In my experience (and this is where post #2 is imminently correct) I'm really leaning towards WiFi and Zigbee,
            Great help! THANKS! So the answer is, the best (or good product) for the job at the time? ZigBee for battery powered motion detectors and door sensors and light bulbs, Zwave for mission critical like door locks and light switches, WIFI for...whatever it is best for?? Makes sense. That was the one beauty of the Wink. I bought what was cheapest at the time and then I never gave another thought about how it was connected. I am assuming the Zee is similar, but I need to add ZigBee to it. Thanks!

            Comment


              #7
              I would recommend UPB light switches is you are willing to spend the $s. Beats wireless every time, and the devices link among themselves to provide much more flexibility than other solutions. HA down, switches still talk to each other.
              tenholde

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by tenholde View Post
                I would recommend UPB light switches
                Wow. They are pricy. My dad had us wired up for X10 growing up in the 70's and 80's. I remember lots of filters on big stuff. I remember frying a filter we put on the new microwave..... I remember nothing working when we cooked something in the microwave. I remember things working faster when we cooked something in the oven. Are all/most of the powerline issues resolved? I thought that is why X10 died and folks moved to wireless.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I use mostly Z-wave, some Zigbee and believe it or not, still a few X-10. For myself, I think a combination of Z-wave a Zigbee is best. This way if any one architecture craps out, at least you still have some automation. Both are very reliable in my case - though, I don't have nor do I want every light switch automated.
                  HS3PRO 3.0.0.500 as a Fire Daemon service, Windows 2016 Server Std Intel Core i5 PC HTPC Slim SFF 4GB, 120GB SSD drive, WLG800, RFXCom, TI103,NetCam, UltraNetcam3, BLBackup, CurrentCost 3P Rain8Net, MCsSprinker, HSTouch, Ademco Security plugin/AD2USB, JowiHue, various Oregon Scientific temp/humidity sensors, Z-Net, Zsmoke, Aeron Labs micro switches, Amazon Echo Dots, WS+, WD+ ... on and on.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    One thing to be careful of is to make sure your WiFi router can handle enough connections. Some of the service provider units are limited on the number of devices which can be connected. Most of the larger providers are pushing new routers and these probably up or drop the limit with all of the connected appliances. Still, something to check if you are going WiFi.

                    Also, many will put all their IoT/Home Automation items on a separate network (VLAN). Again, to consider if you go strictly WiFi.

                    Karl S
                    HS4Pro on Windows 10
                    242 Devices
                    56 Z-Wave Nodes
                    37 Events
                    HSTouch Clients: 3 Android, 1 iOS
                    Google Home: 3 Mini units 1 display

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Here still utilize X10 for my Christmas decorations. Outdoors use the old Black and Decker Freewire X10 modules. This combined with an old wireless palmpad I can go outside and turn all of the lights on with one button. Switched landscaping transformers to DIN mounted 12VDC LED power supplies inside of the house controlled by UPB.
                      - Pete

                      Auto mator
                      Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
                      Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
                      HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 20.04 / VB W7e Jetway JBC420U591
                      Fanless IntelĀ® Celeron N3160 SoC 8Gb
                      HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 20.04/VB W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb
                      HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets

                      X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Smartthings hub, Hubitat Hub, and Home Assistant

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ksum View Post
                        One thing to be careful of is to make sure your WiFi router can handle enough connections. Some of the service provider units are limited on the number of devices which can be connected. Most of the larger providers are pushing new routers and these probably up or drop the limit with all of the connected appliances. Still, something to check if you are going WiFi.

                        Also, many will put all their IoT/Home Automation items on a separate network (VLAN). Again, to consider if you go strictly WiFi.
                        What is logic of putting HA stuff on a separate VLAN if you want everything to work together locally? If you make a VLAN for HA stuff then don't all of your user interfaces like phones, tablets, and computers also need to be on that VLan? And the things being controlled like TVs or Set Top Boxes, Network music systems, etc. would also need to be on that VLAN wouldn't they? So what would remain on the original LAN?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by upstatemike View Post

                          What is logic of putting HA stuff on a separate VLAN if you want everything to work together locally? If you make a VLAN for HA stuff then don't all of your user interfaces like phones, tablets, and computers also need to be on that VLan? And the things being controlled like TVs or Set Top Boxes, Network music systems, etc. would also need to be on that VLAN wouldn't they? So what would remain on the original LAN?
                          My PCs, phones, tablets, HS server, etc are on my primary ("secure") VLAN with rules allowing the IoT stuff minimum necessary access.
                          -Wade

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The reason people do this is to keep less secure items off the same VLAN as their systems. You can set your router to allow items on the more secure VLAN to access items on the IoT VLAN.
                            Karl S
                            HS4Pro on Windows 10
                            242 Devices
                            56 Z-Wave Nodes
                            37 Events
                            HSTouch Clients: 3 Android, 1 iOS
                            Google Home: 3 Mini units 1 display

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I would say stick with zwave for light switches and critical things that can still operate if the internet or your router goes down. Most consumer level network gear is not built to handle that many devices. But mix and match technologies to get what you want. There is no one size fits all where you can say only zwave or only wifi. The most robust systems that I have seen seem to make use of multiple wireless technologies in their own respective niche area.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X