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    Failed sending Z-Wave command to device

    I have some events that are used to turn off groups of lights and, intermittently, when these events run, I get one or more "Failed sending Z-Wave command to device" errors. The offending Z-Wave commands vary from one switch to another between executions of these events. I have tried many things to no avail:
    1. Backing up and restoring the Z-Wave interface
    2. Doing an optimize on the interface
    3. Doing a full optimize on the interface
    4. Turning polling off
    5. Resetting the Z-Wave data
    If I test for connectivity, everything checks out fine. If I try to turn a switch on or off individually, it works perfectly, so the only thing meaningful seems to be the association of turning a sequence of switches off in an event. I even tried introducing delays before turning the individual switches off in the event (see the attached image--most have 1 second delays, but I made the delays longer where there are linked devices).

    This has been very frustrating, and your suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!
    Attached Files

    #2
    Welcome to the headache that is ZWave. I find that out of all the communication protocols that I use with HS Zwave is the least reliable. It is often laggy or nodes drop in and out, despite spending hours optimizing and installing repeaters and moving the repeaters around the house etc.

    You do have quite a few device changes firing in your event. I'm not sure if the delays you have are sequential. By that I mean I think each line is triggered at the same time so all those 1 seconds delays happen at the same time. I'm pretty sure you might have to add a 'wait' command in your event if you want to stagger sending zwave commands. Zwave is not very good at handling multiple simultaneous commands.

    ​​​​​
    iCore5 Win 10 Pro x64 SSD

    HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 Windows

    BLOccupied:,Device History:,Yamaha:,UltraMon3:,mcsXap:,Restart:,UltraNetatmo3:, UltraM1G3:,Ultra1Wire3:,BLBackup:,Harmony Hub:,DoorBird:,UltraECM3:,Nanoleaf 3P:,UltraRachio3:,Z-Wave:,SDJ-Health:,BLGarbage:,Blue-Iris:,Chromecast:,Pushover 3P:,EasyTrigger:

    Comment


      #3
      mminehan is correct - all of those actions with a 1-sec delay will execute at once. You want to use 'wait' if you want to space them out sequentially.
      HS4Pro on a Raspberry Pi4
      54 Z-Wave Nodes / 21 Zigbee Devices / 108 Events / 767 Devices
      Plugins: Z-Wave / Zigbee Plus / EasyTrigger / AK Weather / OMNI

      HSTouch Clients: 1 Android

      Comment


        #4
        I tried placing Waits, but I still have the same problem. mimehan, do you use something in lieu of Z-Wave for light switches and other similar things? I only seem to have this problem when doing sequential operations in an event.

        Comment


          #5
          david.i.tanzer@gmail.com We use C-Bus lighting at home (with an MQTT interface and the mcsMQTT plugin). It's hardwired and was installed during the build. Popular in Australia, New Zealand and the UK. Often found in commercial environments. Same type of market as KNX, Vantage and Savant. It's ultra reliable, fast and flexible. But it's a digital lighting system and expensive.

          I'm not sure what is going on in your setup other than saying that's zwave. Some people seem to have really good luck with it, while others have nothing but headaches.

          If you rapidly turn a single Zwave light on and off via HS do you get comms errors? Check the zwave controller node info if you haven't already (plugins/zwave/node info if I recall) and check they are all communicating at decent speeds (100k or 40k). Some might be old or on the edge of reception operating at 9.6k. You might find they are routing through a slow node.

          Also.....have you had a look at the zwave best practices sticky thread in the zwave subforum? There is some new advice about not optimizing the entire network. But I'm not sure how true that is.
          iCore5 Win 10 Pro x64 SSD

          HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 Windows

          BLOccupied:,Device History:,Yamaha:,UltraMon3:,mcsXap:,Restart:,UltraNetatmo3:, UltraM1G3:,Ultra1Wire3:,BLBackup:,Harmony Hub:,DoorBird:,UltraECM3:,Nanoleaf 3P:,UltraRachio3:,Z-Wave:,SDJ-Health:,BLGarbage:,Blue-Iris:,Chromecast:,Pushover 3P:,EasyTrigger:

          Comment


            #6
            Which Z-Wave interface are you using?
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              #7
              I will post some info and tips. TLDR, jump to the bottom for a summary of what to do, but reading this can be informative.

              It is possible to have a reliable Z-Wave network, I have not had any issues in a very long time and I do add/remove test devices often.
              Note that Z-Wave supports a few different frequencies and you cannot route a fast node through a slow node. This can cause big problems if a node in the center of your network is a slow node and it cannot route through it. There are some older buggy devices that allow routing with the wrong speed, this breaks the network. The node info frame in the plugin will display the speed the node is using.

              500 series devices support the new "explorer" frame. If the controller cannot reach a node it will send one of these frames which will find a working route. In theory if you have all 500 series or newer you do not need to optimize at all. But I think the explorer frame support is optional and some devices may not support it.

              If you fully optimize a large network (over 20 nodes), the controller will have too many routes and it will probably route poorly.

              So to help get around these issues:

              Get rid of older 100 series devices if possible, or at least make sure they are NOT part of the routing. Ideally you want 500 series devices or newer. The Z-Wave node info page will tell you what kind of node you have.

              Try and force a GOOD routing table. This is what I did in my home.

              * Back up the Z-Wave interface, erase it, then restore it.
              * The interface will now have no routes.
              * Do NOT do a full optimize, this is known to mess up a network
              * Find a 500 or 700 series node in the center of your home and optimize this one node.

              With one node optimized the controller will be forced to always route through that node. Run the connectivity test in the z-wave plugin and see if you can reach all your nodes. If not, optimize another 500/700 series node that may be close to the node you cannot reach.

              To avoid that one optimized node to be a single point of failure you can optimize a couple other 500/700 series nodes that are in the center of your network.

              The newer 500/700 series nodes support all speeds so you can be sure that routing will be good through those nodes.

              The Z-Wave chip has a tiny slow processor in it and it can only do one thing at a time. You should not need to add any delays in multiple z-wave commands since the plugin will always wait for a command to finish before it starts another command.

              Heavy Z-Wave traffic can mess up a network. If you have devices that report power, temp, light, etc., make sure they report on as large an interval as you can accept. Sending an update once a second will kill the Z-Wave chip if you have many nodes reporting. To check this go to the config page in the Z-Wave plugin and enable device logging. This will log all commands being sent to the interface. Ideally you should not see anything there. If you see constant commands, adjust the settings on those devices to reduce reporting.

              The Z-Wave plugin is set up in such a way that even if multiple events were running at the same time, all the commands go into a queue and are sent in order.

              Device send errors are caused by the interface not seeing an ACK from the node it is trying to communicate with. This is normally caused the the ACK getting lost and not reaching the interface, or the command never reached the device so an ACK was never sent. Heavy Z-Wave traffic can also cause this where interface could not find free time to transmit.

              If you have nodes that are just slow in responding or maybe the interface is having a hard time routing to it, go the config page in the Z-Wave plugin and extend the Send Timeout. The default is 8 seconds which should be good, but Z-Wave does allow routing to take much longer. We will time out the command if it exceeds this limit. Times longer than 8 seconds usually indicate a problem. No one wants to wait that long to control something.

              I have seen a node go into a mode where it was constantly transmitting. This usually causes the network to not work at all, but it could also cause it to be unreliable. Sometimes power cycling the entire home helps as this resets ALL the nodes and could fix a buggy device.

              Some baby monitors run at a frequency very close to Z-Wave and can interfere, Check if you have anything that transmits RF and turn it off.

              Z-Seer is a good tool as it can run a connectivity test on all nodes and find nodes that are not reliable.

              In summary:
              * Do not optimize the entire network, only optimize a 500 series node in the center of your network
              * Stop devices from reporting often to the interface, like power monitoring devices, or sensors like temp or light.
              * Try to get rid of old buggy devices based on the 100 series chip
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              Comment


                #8
                You get my point about zwave.......optimize this but not that, replace old nodes, buggy devices, RF interference, ACK errors, can't handle too much traffic etc. There are just too many things that go wrong. Which may be fine in some situations but I would never use it for something like fire detection or even security.

                And only USA controllers (as opposed to Z Sticks on AU or EU frequnecies) can be backed up and restored using HS. So I can't delete routing tables on my Aeotec S2 (AU frequency).

                ​​​
                iCore5 Win 10 Pro x64 SSD

                HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 Windows

                BLOccupied:,Device History:,Yamaha:,UltraMon3:,mcsXap:,Restart:,UltraNetatmo3:, UltraM1G3:,Ultra1Wire3:,BLBackup:,Harmony Hub:,DoorBird:,UltraECM3:,Nanoleaf 3P:,UltraRachio3:,Z-Wave:,SDJ-Health:,BLGarbage:,Blue-Iris:,Chromecast:,Pushover 3P:,EasyTrigger:

                Comment


                  #9
                  Z-Wave plugin 3.0.5.1 which is in beta on the "Add Plugins" page has a new restore that should work with more interfaces. We don't care what the frequency is, the interface just needs to support the restore nodes API. Most 500 series and newer interfaces support this.

                  Originally posted by mminehan View Post
                  You get my point about zwave.......optimize this but not that, replace old nodes, buggy devices, RF interference, ACK errors, can't handle too much traffic etc. There are just too many things that go wrong. Which may be fine in some situations but I would never use it for something like fire detection or even security.

                  And only USA controllers (as opposed to Z Sticks on AU or EU frequnecies) can be backed up and restored using HS. So I can't delete routing tables on my Aeotec S2 (AU frequency).

                  ​​​
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                    #10
                    rjh, thank you very much. This information is most helpful! I'm a noob, so I have a few questions that may seem basic:
                    1. I've purchased all of my devices within the last year, so I presume they are all 500 series or newer, but how do I tell?
                    2. In order to do an optimize on a particular node, do I go into Plug-Ins -> Z-Wave - Node Information, find the node I'm looking for, click on its name, and then go to the Z-Wave tab and click the "Optimize" button?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by rjh View Post
                      Z-Wave plugin 3.0.5.1 which is in beta on the "Add Plugins" page has a new restore that should work with more interfaces. We don't care what the frequency is, the interface just needs to support the restore nodes API. Most 500 series and newer interfaces support this.
                      I'll take another look again tonight. But I was having issues again last week with my Zwave network, specifically a ZXT-120 that keeps dropping out, and I was unable to restore the controller backup due to 'incompatibility' issues.
                      iCore5 Win 10 Pro x64 SSD

                      HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 Windows

                      BLOccupied:,Device History:,Yamaha:,UltraMon3:,mcsXap:,Restart:,UltraNetatmo3:, UltraM1G3:,Ultra1Wire3:,BLBackup:,Harmony Hub:,DoorBird:,UltraECM3:,Nanoleaf 3P:,UltraRachio3:,Z-Wave:,SDJ-Health:,BLGarbage:,Blue-Iris:,Chromecast:,Pushover 3P:,EasyTrigger:

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Go to the Z-Wave menu, then node information. That will list detailed information about your nodes, under version you want the ZDK to be 6.X or higher. You can also check the speed, if its new it will show at least 100k. If it shows 9.6K then its much older.

                        To optimize just a node, click on the root device in the device list then the Z-Wave tab. You will see a button to optimize. It will optimize just that node.

                        Originally posted by david.i.tanzer@gmail.com View Post
                        rjh, thank you very much. This information is most helpful! I'm a noob, so I have a few questions that may seem basic:
                        1. I've purchased all of my devices within the last year, so I presume they are all 500 series or newer, but how do I tell?
                        2. In order to do an optimize on a particular node, do I go into Plug-Ins -> Z-Wave - Node Information, find the node I'm looking for, click on its name, and then go to the Z-Wave tab and click the "Optimize" button?
                        💁‍♂️ Support & Customer Service 🙋‍♂️ Sales Questions 🛒 Shop HomeSeer Products

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by rjh View Post
                          Z-Wave plugin 3.0.5.1 which is in beta on the "Add Plugins" page has a new restore that should work with more interfaces. We don't care what the frequency is, the interface just needs to support the restore nodes API. Most 500 series and newer interfaces support this.
                          So I tried to backup/restore of my Aeotec S2 Gen5 with version 3.0.5.1of the plugin and got the same "it's too old" message while trying to restore. So I guess that means I am still unable to clear the routing tables. I have spent so much time and money trying to get zwave to perform reliably. I still take the position that is it one of the poorest performing subsystems of my HS setup and not fit for anything one might consider critical like fire detection or security.
                          iCore5 Win 10 Pro x64 SSD

                          HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435 Windows

                          BLOccupied:,Device History:,Yamaha:,UltraMon3:,mcsXap:,Restart:,UltraNetatmo3:, UltraM1G3:,Ultra1Wire3:,BLBackup:,Harmony Hub:,DoorBird:,UltraECM3:,Nanoleaf 3P:,UltraRachio3:,Z-Wave:,SDJ-Health:,BLGarbage:,Blue-Iris:,Chromecast:,Pushover 3P:,EasyTrigger:

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Sorry you are having issues, maybe try another interface? Also, if you have many nodes or a large home multiple ZNETS can fix that since you can install them where you need them and they divide up the load. My system has been rock solid and I don't have any issues and I know many others that don't have a problem. That being said, I do know that it's not always a plug and play and system and needs to be messed with at times to get it working reliably. All it takes is one bad device to disrupt the system.

                            Originally posted by mminehan View Post

                            So I tried to backup/restore of my Aeotec S2 Gen5 with version 3.0.5.1of the plugin and got the same "it's too old" message while trying to restore. So I guess that means I am still unable to clear the routing tables. I have spent so much time and money trying to get zwave to perform reliably. I still take the position that is it one of the poorest performing subsystems of my HS setup and not fit for anything one might consider critical like fire detection or security.
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                            Comment


                              #15
                              rjh, okay, I've had time to digest your extensive information (thank you again), and I am still baffled. To begin fresh, I backed up my interface and then restored it, which should have removed all of my routes. Then I did a connectivity test, which was completely successful--20 nodes were successfully contacted. 3 nodes weren't tested since they are battery powered switches. So my network appears to be healthy. I can 100% of the time turn individual switches on and off remotely, and I never see any errors when doing this.

                              Next, I tried to run my event that turns off eight Z-Wave switches in sequence. Per your instructions, I removed all waits and delays. Each time I do this, errors are logged. The first time (in the first image), I got a mixture of errors and all switches except for the Kitchen Switch were actually turned off. I then tried it again, and I got different switches reporting errors (and this time, the Kitchen switch was successfully turned off). Interestingly, the Dining Room Switch and Multilevel had been previously turned off, yet they still reported an error.

                              So my next task was to follow your instructions to optimize a single, centrally located device, but then I realized that each of the switches that failed in these two task executions were centrally located. They are all within 25' of my hub, and are unobstructed by walls. So it doesn't make any sense to choose any one of these over another to optimize--they should all readily communicate directly with my hub. My hub appears to otherwise be working fine, and it's directly connected to my router via an ethernet cable.

                              All of my devices are recent purchases. Most are Jasco switches. For instance, the Kitchen Switch is shown in the third attachment. All of my devices are ZDK 6.5.8 or higher.

                              The only consistent thing I observe is that failures only seem to occur when I am turning multiple switches off in short order, either within a task or because some switches are linked together. I have the sense that there is some sort of collision going on that either causes a failure of the command to reach the Z-Wave device or causes a failure of the ACK coming back.

                              This is making me nuts!
                              Attached Files

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