YoLink - Products

[jim@beersman.com]

Had an email conversation over the weekend with one of the Product Managers at YoLink about adding local access to their products and not requiring bouncing out to the cloud to get the data. I have heard a lot of good things about there product, but the one complaint I have heard is lack of integration with other products and systems. Here is the response.

"Unfortunately, what you are describing would be a fundamental change to how our products work. It may be the case there are many, many people that want a local-only, no-cloud, smart home. But based on what we see, the majority of people would prefer to not have a server, and something they need to maintain, let alone physically build and code. Even myself, an owner of a Raspberry Pi, a bit of an electronics tinker and coder, I would rather someone takes care of that, deals with updates, etc. And while you can probably name a bunch of brands that are offering what you describe, a change like that would just be a monumental process. Our reality is that sales has been on a high trajectory since we started and there are no signs we need to worry about survival. Our worries are more often about if we produced enough units of a new product, because they are selling like crazy and we’ve been running out of inventory."

[upstatemike]

I am disappointed but not surprised. If Yolink, or any other LoRa based solution became available for local control I would standardize on that in a heartbeat. I am not happy with any protocol that works in the 2.4 Wi-Fi frequency range both because of the crowding and the poor range and performance at that frequency. Unless you have a tiny house or a trivial amount of automation it does not make sense to operate at frequencies that high. Likewise I don'r feel any implementation of "mesh protocols" has lived up to the promise and are all just a huge time vampire sucking up all the time you want to spend doing cool automations instead trying to get the mesh to optimize, find a way to back it up and restore for disasters, etc. It is unfortunate that the good protocols that operate at or below 900MHz are either mesh or have such a limited range of devices (Lutron Clear Connect, Insteon) or no local API (Yolink) that there really is no good option at this time.

[Michael McSharry]

I have been communicating with YoLink for months and strung along with expectation of the protocol for the LoRa communications so local control could be achieve. I guess when times are good there is no need for customers. This email closes the door. I guessperson I had been communicating with not longer needed to pursue other avenues with his sales quota being achieved.

I have used LoRa or a few things so seeing this technology being available as product rather than a development was intising. To bad it will not materialize.

[upstatemike]

I have to admit the Yolink stuff I have installed so far has been very reliable using Alexa routines. On th other hand Amazon could change something to mess that up at any time. Bottom line my rule is never ever ever ever make a significant investment in hardware that depends on an external service to function.

[logbuilder]

Here have been using Yolink for monitoring temp in freezer and frig. Communications seem to work well even from inside the freezer. The Yolink app has alerts to it will send either an email or text when the temp gets outside of a range you can specify. Generally works OK but it would be nice to bring those devices into HS but not a whole lot of additional value. I also installed a yolink outlet on my IOT wifi access point and the server that runs HS as well as BI, Plex, and solar monitoring. Now, should I be remote and can't access apps on the server, I can reboot either/both of them to resolve. This works since the switches are not wifi based. Also installed two garage door sensors in an outbuilding that is about 300' away from the hub. Kinda works but not that fast or reliable. Sometimes misses and opening or closing and doesn't seem to later sync.

[jim@beersman.com]

At my home, I loose Internet 5 - 10 times a day from seconds to minutes depending on the day. This is much better than it was in the past. I used LinkedIn to track down the VP for customer service for the provider and complained directly to him (showed him a month worth of logs). My service call went from be there in 3-4 weeks to are you home now. It was fun.

So anything that relies on the cloud can not be used for anything critical. I did purchase a YoLink contact sensor for the MailBox that was out of range for other technology. Just wanted to give it a look. This is not critical, just convenience. So far it's been reliable but the lack of local access means I don't plan on purchasing other products from them. In fact ordered some LoRa NodeMCU devices to build my own mailbox and toolshed notification device that will be local.

[wpiman]

At my home, I loose Internet 5 - 10 times a day from seconds to minutes depending on the day. This is much better than it was in the past. I used LinkedIn to track down the VP for customer service for the provider and complained directly to him (showed him a month worth of logs). My service call went from be there in 3-4 weeks to are you home now. It was fun.

So anything that relies on the cloud can not be used for anything critical. I did purchase a YoLink contact sensor for the MailBox that was out of range for other technology. Just wanted to give it a look. This is not critical, just convenience. So far it's been reliable but the lack of local access means I don't plan on purchasing other products from them. In fact ordered some LoRa NodeMCU devices to build my own mailbox and toolshed notification device that will be local.

I have been using Dakota Alert for the far off items and ever since I switched over the Z-wave plus for all my nodes, my Z-wave network has been extremely reliable. Interested to see what Z-wave Long Range (LR) will do.

Too bad about YoLink not opening up a simple API.

[upstatemike]

I am now on the fence about the whole local vs cloud thing based on my recent experience with Z-Wave flood sensor. Basically I had a lot of trouble getting a ZWave flood sensor enrolled properly and when I finally did I was not happy with the delays in triggering and reset. By contrast I set up a Yolink sensor in lierally less than 30 seconds and it has very quick response and is dead reliable. In principal local is better than cloud to avoid dependance on the Internet and a vendor's service offerings but in practice LoRa is so much easier, quicker to repond, and reliable that I find myself using it just to get things done and move on. YoLink provides some local linking options but the logic is too limited to be useful. I really feel whoever is first to market with a LoRa system that can interface locally with popular hubs such as Homeseer, Hubitat, Home Assistant, and OpenHab, will win the protocol wars especially if they create popular products like a LoRa color bulb. Till then I will likely put YoLink in the same category as Alexa: Something that is cloud based but is also the best available solution for what it does so just accept the cloud compromise for now.

[jim@beersman.com]

I would just be happy if YoLink could just put a MQTT client in their local hub and at least send status messages so that other systems could consume them.

[Eric-YoLink]

Eric with YoLink here! I have updates but my account is brand new and likely to be banned if I say anything promoting YoLink but in the smart home world, a lot changes in a couple months and we are no exception. email me at eric @yosmart dotcom to discuss our schedule to have official HA integration before March, a web console coming out, D2D pairing and new products here now and on the way. All good stuff!

[Michael McSharry]

Is it your intention that the integration will continue to be via the Yosmart cloud servers or will you be providing an API for LAN access to the hub?

[logbuilder]

Eric, Welcome to HomeSeer! Here you will find a bunch of folks that have been into home automation for decades. HS allows for integration of most any device. Some of my devices are 15 years old and they are well supported in HS. Thanks to Michael, devices that support MQTT are easily integrated into HS. One of the fundamental reasons that people have selected HS is that from the beginning, HS has been all about local control - no internet dependence. Your products offer solutions where distance has been an issue in the past. I've tried insteon and z-wave in outbuildings with success only when rather close to the house. Your products are working well in terms of distance. However with cloud dependency, if my internet goes down, the YoLink devices effectively down too. If you are able to work with Michael on providing local status/control, it would be a big positive in my mind. I look forward to testing when it becomes available.

Robert

[Eric-YoLink]

It will be easiest to repost something from the HA forum:

At the risk of banishment, I will proceed to clear the air on some things here, and promote YoLink, which is even more of a viable option for lot of you since the first post. Yes, I work for YoLink, but I started as a customer. Looking to deck out my new construction home with the best home automation system I could afford, I loaded Python and HA on a Pi and went to work shopping for sensors. I made the mistake of buying a YoLink Temperature & Humidity sensor (they just had an indoor one at the time). I really loved the green packaging, build quality and appearance, all very Apple-esque. Insane long range. I had some questions and also had a couple automation settings suggestions, I emailed customer support. I received a prompt and friendly reply. Later, I found they added my requests to the app. At one point, I’m bragging about my plans for my home over-the-top security and automation, the CEO replies to my email. Long story less long, I am working for them now. No need for HA or the 4000’ of Cat 5E and 6 I put in the house for wired sensors and Arduinos, etc.
But for everyone not getting all the free YoLink stuff they can want, Home Assistant integration - No-brainer, yes. But YoLink wasn’t even a thing 3 years ago, so the reason we are not already set up with an official Home Assistant integration (coming before March '22) is we have spent the first couple years of existence just fleshing out a bare-bones product line. And then, sometime this year, the world discovered YoLink and now we can’t keep the stuff on the shelves. We’re doing a brisk business in Brazil all of a sudden. I have an integrator in Turkey that wants to be signed up as a dealer (he has a 200 unit apartment building being built, going all-smart). High-rise condo market is exploding for us, as our leak sensors, Bulldog shut off combo and 1/4 mile range all make for a killer water leak detection/auto-shut-off solution. All that said, we have just been pulled in 1000 directions. We are integrator-friendly, we DO actually have a free API, and while we said we’d do this earlier in the year, we have our engineers committed to completing an official Home Assistant integration before 3/2022.

But we are developer and integrator-friendly. We have a Discord discussion for them, and for our Power User Group. We do work with MQTT and we actually do have some customers already setup, getting our devices to show up on their HA dashboards.

Our HA integration is not local yet, it’s server-to-server. Local integration is inevitable, if anything the commercial market will tip the scales in the favor for those that want local control. But some hardware is needed for this. It will likely come in the developer board and SDK we have planned - a board with all GPIOs available, and, concept designs have their way, modular I/O interfaces to DIY your own integration (e.g. 4-20mA, RS485, Bluetooth, etc.).

We do offer as a next-best-thing, our patented “Control D2D” device-to-device pairing, that allows for devices to work together, without WiFi, internet and even power. We have two options for dry contact inputs and two outputs/relays options.

Our efforts on product development has been paying off:

We have two fobs. AlarmFob and FlexFob. 4 buttons, each with 2 function. Control your YoLink devices and scenes arm and disarm (we have central station monitoring now), AND trigger Alexa routines and IFTTT applets.

We have added additional outdoor products, as this is an area of strength for us. Some competitors can barely get a sensor working in your mailbox in your front yard, let alone one in a metal mailbox 500’ as the crow flies in your subdivision. WP siren, motion sensor, temp/humidity, temp with probe. We are adding three more TH sensors or varieties, built for wider temperature ranges and coming with lithium batteries capable of up to 10 year battery life!

I have two of them on my desk right now, but by Thanksgiving you can get your own SpeakerHub, a new addition to the family of Hubs (cellular LTE coming next), this hub can play tones and sounds and read you your messages in clear, intelligible text-to-speech (from your custom messages in automation, etc.). We think this will be a game-changer, and we also see it changing expectations for smart home for those with accessibility and visual impairments, etc.

And I can not forget to mention our new web console. The beta version, going out this month, is geared for large, multi-site customers, like HOAs and property managers, like one with 18 sites and high-rise condos that have ~2000 sensors each in phase 1 alone (add lock management and thermostat and other aspects for rental applications and that number could easily double). So, immense systems, all brought into a condensed web browser. This tech will trickle down and be seen in our (new) app as well as a home version to run on tablets or our keypad product (both out early '22).

We’re not for everyone, and we’re not trying to be, but if you think YoLink could be a match for you, I have no reservations telling you to give us a try. It’s a great time to be a YoLink customer and the future is bright!

[Michael McSharry]

Our HA integration is not local yet, it’s server-to-server. Local integration is inevitable

When it happens let us know. Until then I do not see any integration changes for the HS user which now has cloud-based integration.

[logbuilder]

Eric,

Just looked at the keyfobs on Amazon. They look great! Are they documented in the existing API so that Michael can integrate them and make them available to HS users?

Thanks,
Robert

https://smile.amazon.com/FlexFob-4-B.../dp/B0978V4WQC