HomeSeer frustrations - Capabilities / Devices / Plugins

[DTPerk]

Hello all,

I have recently come back around to Homeseer (4) from a past of running a dedicated PC running HS2 (about 10 years ago).....

I am having some of the same frustrations today that I ran into back then, Determining the optimal hardware/software/plugin selection to achieve automations!
I know HS is a great (very capable) platform, and today we have tons of options on 'smart' hardware at our fingertips for reasonable prices.

My frustration is determining which devices (hardware) to buy and plugin to support such devices.... Same with just plugins (determining which to employ).

Is there some sort of 'list' that correlates hardware with the needed/suggested plugin or software somewhere that I may be missing?
For example, just in "Weather" software, there are several different options (some paid, some free) to consider implementing. I cannot find a high level overview of the functionality/options each provides or how to determine which to implement for my needs(wants) LOL. I feel like I have to take the time to install each, spend time configuring, then test and play with the software to determine if it's something that I want....

I spent over an hour yesterday just checking out available plugins - the list and options have grown considerably from years ago (which is great!), but nowhere can I find a high-level overview of any of these plugins! Some of them don't even have updated or clear "release notes" with them ... So how is someone suppose to determine if the plugin will 'work' for their needs?

On a similar note, if I have a 'smart' device - how is one suppose to know or find out which plugin is the best fit for the device? Is there some sort of 'list' that marries device (or device types) with available/appropriate plugins ???

If I'm missing something, by George, point me in the right direction and I will humbly thank whomever! If not, how do y'all go about making some of these decisions I've laid out above?
Thanks in advance for your input, guidance and direction!!!!!

[Pete]

Curious what it is that you were using for Weather with Homeseer 2?

Personally here went to a weather station and used Adam's then Jon00's Cumulus plugin and later integrated it to WeatherXML.

Today still using WeatherXML (no longer supported) with Homeseer 3 and 4.

Smart devices are typically cloud based and WiFi per proprietary vendor clouds. That said the plugins you see for smart devices are proprietary to the vendor / MFG name.

Many new smart WiFi devices can be made "cloud less" replacing the firmware on the device and using MQTT. Vendors of said smart WiFi devices are making it more difficult to replace the firmware. That said MQTT is here to stay and not changing. The WiFi hardware is evolving and changing. Some folks like automation (Smart devices) that they can manage from their tethered phones and or Alexa or Google Home these days. (cloud stuff). Others do like like cloud based automation.

You have an automated infrastructure that works today with Homeseer 2. Just make the existing infrastructure work with Homeseer 4. You don't have to choose plugins for technology you are unfamiliar with unless you want to tinker with new rather than continue to run with the old stuff. It is up to you.

Homeseer 4 works today with X10, Insteon, UPB, ZWave, Zigbee and WiFi switches (there is more). The automation engine improved with Homeseer 3 then later with Homeseer 4.

[DTPerk]

Curious what it is that you were using for Weather with Homeseer 2?

Personally here went to a weather station and used Adam's then Jon00's Cumulus plugin and later integrated it to WeatherXML.

Today still using WeatherXML (no longer supported) with Homeseer 3 and 4.

You have an automated infrastructure that works today with Homeseer 2. Just make the existing infrastructure work with Homeseer 4. You don't have to choose plugins for technology you are unfamiliar with unless you want to tinker with new rather than continue to run with the old stuff. It is up to you.

Hi Pete, The old(er) HS2 system bit the dust many years ago, and I hung up my automation at that point (no time to work on getting it back up).... It also was mostly for my entertainment, not really for serious functionality.
I was running Jon's weatherXML back on that system and it worked great!

I see you being pretty active here on the board, so I'm assuming you have a pretty good handle on the current state of HA on HS and capabilities. I am really feeling like Homeseer (the company) is missing the boat so to speak on not having some sort of correlation with hardware and software (plugin) capabilities. I mean, I understand that most of the plugins are community (3rd party) written and supported, but a lot of the base functionality of HS has HS developed plugins.... Why wouldn't the HS staff take the time to compile a 'list' of base functionality (devices, plugins, add-ins, etc) and direct potential users to reference that list ... Go one step further, and encourage the 3rd party developers to post insight into what their plugin addresses or adds as functionality to the HS platform ???

I totally get that the HS people are software developers first and foremost.... But I think they are missing a LOT of opportunity with this market segment to the 'big boys' with not having this information at the ready for potential new customers! Am I missing something??

Thanks

[Eman]

Yes,
Most weather plug-ins are Location (region) based that the devs cater for their regions...
For anything else "break it down" or create a plan/s of all that you're trying to do...and yes X10 is still here but the world has moved on.

• To start off you must if not have a good network and you can't go wrong with the UniFi plug-in by stefxx
• The AK SmartDevice, SceneMaster and EasyTrigger plug-ins are in the league of their own ( am not here to bash other plug-ins but try them and you will get hooked...)
• Did I mention Node-RED interface in HomeSeer?, now you have a lot on your hands
• @Blade plug-ins are amazing

Come back with small chunks of your projects as you go along and you will be well on your way into it.

If you believe deep into living green then there are small devices like the Raspberry PI on the market these days, gone are the days when we had to keep a full rack of equipment.


Eman.

[jon00]

I was running Jon's weatherXML back on that system and it worked great!

Just for the record, CFGuy wrote WeatherXML.

To add to your confusion, I also have many goodies for download which are not shown in the updater.

[Pete]

Am I missing something??

No.

The automation market and methodologies has evolved much over the last few years.

Personally have automated my lights in every house I have lived in since the late 1970's. (from a simple BSR X-10 tabletop timer, firmware, software)

Homeseer has kept up with the old and now the new technologies which is good for a small software company that has been around over 20 years now.

My children (over 30 now) want easy button automation that is managed by their phone and integrates with their Amazon / Google smart devices.

My children do not care or want to care about any software running 24/7 on a computer with Windows, Linux or iOS. Thinking this is the way of young folks (yut of today).

The big boys Amazon, Microsoft, Google have brought easy button (and AI now) automation to the masses.

At this point I am defending Homeseer because it still works the way in worked in the late 1990's (my old computer world) and now today I can integrate it with the easy button automation (Amazon Alexa or Google devices or smart phones). They have a small staff are today dependant on many 3rd party Homeseer programmers.

[ksum]

I beg to disagree with Pete this time. While the "big boys" have brought SOME easy button items to home automation devices, I feel they have brought little true automation. They AHVE brought much Voice Control and much of todays audience believe that turning a light on/off with your voice or a phone app is Automation, that is all Remote Control. HomeSeer and other hubs still rule in true automation capabilities. The big boys want you to believe otherwise, but they are not automating much. Without a hub such as HomeSeer real automations are hobbled together from various disconnected items.

[Dweber85rc]

From the plugin page in HS you have the option for almost all plugins to go to their individual support forum , most of the developers do a good job of documenting the plugins and adequatly explaining what their plugin is for. Yes it takes some leg work on your part. I would recommend listing out what you have or what devices you are interested in and then finding the appropriate plugin for that device.

[drhtmal]

[QUOTE=Pete;n1484125]
[QUOTE]

yut? What is a yut?

[ksum]

Regarding finding plugins to go with devices/devices with plugins: Some are not straightforward. For instance, many items might have MQTT capabilities, OR you can now reprogram some devices to use something such as Tasmota which uses MQTT to communicate. MQTT is a messaging protocol used to communicate between many things. The free mcsMQTT plugin has a "Broker" which I liken to an old telephone switchboard operator. It is needed to distribute the messages. There are Sonoff and Shelly devices which can be reprogrammed to use Tasmota and MQTT (via the mcsMQTT plugin) OR you can use a different plugin for some of these. I can load Tasamota on an Arduino NodeMCU or D1 Mini and add sensors to get light, temperature, humidity, and even motion. For around $5 US I have a unit reporting the light levels as well as Temperature and humidity and has a reed switch on my garage door to let me know if it is closed. This reports back via MQTT. OR I could get the Arduino plugin and not use MQTT.

For some things there is only one plugin. A search often reveals that, but like any search, you need to get the terms to match.

For other items there are multiple plugins. Finding them is sometimes difficult. The method I have used is to think about what I want to do, look at how I want it to work and see what fits the bill. Sometimes that means asking here as well.

Some plugins connect to many items. Big5 seems to be one, but I do not use that. As mentioned MQTT and mcsMQTT makes many things possible as well. For these types of items you are loooking for something which communicates with what the devices communicate. This is a big difference from the HS2 days. MQTT, URLs and other methods allow for a variety of ways to connect to items.

There is also the newly added Node Red for connecting to items which do not have a plugin. It has connections with some of these items.

I chose z-wave for all my light switches. Moved from x10, which you probably used with HS2, same as I did. Had I started today I may have looked at Zigbee or even flashing Shelly units. After getting tired of flashing them, I would move to Zigbee or z-wave. I have a feeling zigbee would frustrate me though many others love it. I do not use battery devices and z-wave motion sensors have a bad wrap because most use battery and can take some time to reconnect and report motion. For the few motion sensors I do use, I use those powered via USB and a plugged in phone charger. In this scenario they are always connected and I have had no speed issues. This is one of the big pros for using zigbee.

I wish there was an easy way to list all devices and what you need to communicate with them, but there isn't that type of relationship. Not all "smart" devices are actually smart either. Many need to communicate back to the company's server and cannot communicate with other items. Or they will using something called IFTTT. I would not recommend this as a communication tool, but, again, others will.

[ksum]

[QUOTE=drhtmal;n1484134][QUOTE=Pete;n1484125]

yut? What is a yut?

https://youtu.be/K6qGwmXZtsE?t=108 HAHAHAHA!!!

[Pete]

ksum

You are right. It is only remote control. Slowly bit by bit AI is coming in to the picture.

Yut (from the movie link above - youth - I am a baby boomer - folks younger than me - ) - easy button remote control on their tethered smart phones / wrist devices / tablets.

Homeseer does real software automation and is not a remote control device.

[DTPerk]

Just for the record, CFGuy wrote WeatherXML.

To add to your confusion, I also have many goodies for download which are not shown in the updater.

You sir, Are correct! Thank you! I do recall many of your fine additions over the years to the platform, and think I may have used one or two of them back in the day (my previous setup). I will definitely be checking out what irons you have in the fire currently as I move forward. Appreciate your dedication and expertise for sure!!

[DTPerk]

Am I missing something??

No.

The automation market and methodologies has evolved much over the last few years.

.......

The big boys Amazon, Microsoft, Google have brought easy button (and AI now) automation to the masses.

At this point I am defending Homeseer because it still works the way in worked in the late 1990's (my old computer world) and now today I can integrate it with the easy button automation (Amazon Alexa or Google devices or smart phones). They have a small staff are today dependent on many 3rd party Homeseer programmers.

Hey Pete, I come from the same (general) background as you - have a career in technology going back to the mid 80s. Computer / Electronics 'tech' early on, got into PC/LAN networking in the 90s, did that for 20 years, then jumped off to start my own gig in LED lighting in 07.... Still running the LED operation today and I don't look back LOL!

I really don't feel anyone needs to 'defend' HS at all! They have been around as you mention and stood the test of time, and here I am a decade later jumping back on the platform (after a short stint with Samsung and SmartThings) ... I was spoiled even back to HS2 with the granular capability that HS afforded and very few (if any currently) of these 'big boys' really don't do automation as others mentioned here...... They do 'remote' as mentioned, and of course it has its place among those like you described.

I recall having similar thoughts 10 years ago, with all the time spent researching, installing, playing and sometimes banging the head against the wall with trying to get stuff to work, but enjoyed it immensely! I had just hoped after all this time, and the field being more embraced by newer hardware manufacturers, that HS might have recognized this and done something to try to pull things together. Again, I completely understand that they focus on the core software and leave much of the peripheral development to others - and there's nothing wrong with that. I just see a huge opportunity to expand their user base if the general populous had some of this info, or a way to get 'up-to-speed' with relative ease! 🤷♂️

Appreciate your input!

[DTPerk]

Regarding finding plugins to go with devices/devices with plugins: Some are not straightforward. For instance, many items might have MQTT capabilities, OR you can now reprogram some devices to use something such as Tasmota which uses MQTT to communicate. MQTT is a messaging protocol used to communicate between many things. The free mcsMQTT plugin has a "Broker" which I liken to an old telephone switchboard operator. It is needed to distribute the messages. There are Sonoff and Shelly devices which can be reprogrammed to use Tasmota and MQTT (via the mcsMQTT plugin) OR you can use a different plugin for some of these. I can load Tasamota on an Arduino NodeMCU or D1 Mini and add sensors to get light, temperature, humidity, and even motion. For around $5 US I have a unit reporting the light levels as well as Temperature and humidity and has a reed switch on my garage door to let me know if it is closed. This reports back via MQTT. OR I could get the Arduino plugin and not use MQTT.
....

I chose z-wave for all my light switches. Moved from x10, which you probably used with HS2, same as I did. Had I started today I may have looked at Zigbee or even flashing Shelly units. After getting tired of flashing them, I would move to Zigbee or z-wave. I have a feeling zigbee would frustrate me though many others love it. I do not use battery devices and z-wave motion sensors have a bad wrap because most use battery and can take some time to reconnect and report motion. For the few motion sensors I do use, I use those powered via USB and a plugged in phone charger. In this scenario they are always connected and I have had no speed issues. This is one of the big pros for using zigbee.

I wish there was an easy way to list all devices and what you need to communicate with them, but there isn't that type of relationship. Not all "smart" devices are actually smart either. Many need to communicate back to the company's server and cannot communicate with other items. Or they will using something called IFTTT. I would not recommend this as a communication tool, but, again, others will.

Thanks Ksum! I'm thouroughly confused now!!!! (just kidding!!)... There are a bunch of new technologies, and that's part of the reason I'm back to 'playing' with the tech. I AM going to have to get more up to speed with MQTT and Aruduino tech. Just something I have on the 'to-do' list LOL.

You are correct, back in my earlier days, X10 and Insteon were the options, I do recall z-wave just coming online, but it was the most expensive at the time. I had the whole home and secondary building all using X10 pretty reliably and consistently. I (also like you) don't care for batteries in devices... I've opted to use mostly WiFi hardwired devices (yes, I know I don't need a 'hub' or gateway to use these), but will be getting into probably some z-wave stuff in short order (motion, multi-sensors, etc)

As mentioned in a previous reply, I have SmartThings running currently, with a V3 hub, connected to Google Home/assistant and it all works fairly well. I've gone as far as to dip into the developer / advanced side where Samsung has opened up some of the backend to get more control of devices or routines (they call it the IDE/Groovy platform) and it has helped me gain more functionality. The biggest problem I have with most of the current "Automation Tech" is the fact that it's almost all cloud based. I'm somewhat 'old skool' and also have a strong background in LAN/WAN networking (Cisco trained as well), and subscribe to the school of local control, and redundancy - Power outage, internet outage, kiss your 'automation' bye-bye! And that's not even touching on the performance/latency issue!

So here I am, back to HomeSeer, and jumped back onboard with the new G2 Pi troller. Now as I'm going through looking at all the 'goodies', I'm reminded of the earlier days when I had to spend half my time on message boards or doing research to find the plugin, appropriate hardware and the like to accomplish my task.... I had hoped that things had become more 'user friendly' with the HS platform over the decade I was absent LOL!

I (like you) have the feeling that Zigbee would frustrate me as well!!! Part of the reason I have not dipped my toe into that pond yet... My next venture is a serious look into thermostat tech, but I fall into that group with a heat pump and AUX (emergency) heat backup.... So this may be where I either take the Zigbee plunge, or at least Z-wave, but i intend to crush this issue of emergency heat (Aux) heat being used when the temp outside doesn't require the AUX heat --- I have a lot of digging to do on this whole setup/subject (for another day) LOL!

I have to concur with much of your input, your position and background/history here Ksum. We have both come from similar places in our HA past lives!
Thank you for your input and thoughts!

Damn Yuts! (LOL 😂🤣 )