Smart Electrical Panel

[ewkearns]

The website still mentions an "Installer App" necessary to "commission" the panel. (Whatever that means.)

[TC1]

The website still mentions an "Installer App" necessary to "commission" the panel. (Whatever that means.)

The panel has to be installed by a licensed electrician, that's true in any municipality in the USA. This is basically the electrician signing off on the install and assuring the company has an accurate representation of the setup/install. Not sure how this would be an issue?

[mulu]

I talked to SPAN and it's a no-go due to cost.

On the positive side, SPAN worked with our utility company (and I am sure many others) to introduce that rebate. That's why the open API is a requirement for the rebate, i.e. it is something that currently only SPAN has. I actually like that open API. It would be nice if other companies would do this, too. That way when a company goes belly up after you have spent $$$ on a smart panel it will still work via local control. As for the circuit breakers, they are standard 1" circuit breakers so you can have any electrician (or even yourself) replace the breakers. That makes sense because when you look at their website you see that the smarts are on a panel behind the actual circuit breakers.

Now the bad thing. Due to CA code we have to keep the original 200A electrical panel. So what SPAN would do is leaving the 200A main switch in the existing main panel. Then they move all the circuit breakers from the existing main panel to their SPAN panel. That means their panel becomes a subpanel. Our main 200A panel only allows 100A subpanel. And due to technical limitations of the SPAN panel that is reduced to 90A. So we would have to replace the main panel to allow 200A subpanels. That's a tier 3 service so installation is $8500. So that's $8500 for installation and $4500 for the panel for a total of $13k. Even if we didn't have the issue with the main panel that only allows 100A subpanels it would still be $5300 for tier 2 installation and $4500 for the panel for a total of $9800.

To make things worse, our subpanel has circuits that draw a lot of power. They definitely would have to be managed by SPAN. The subpanel is kind of far from the main panel. So that means we need a second SPAN panel (which we might have needed anyways as the SPAN panel cannot accommodate enough circuits). So that's another $4500 for the panel and probably about $3000 for installation for a total of $7500. So in our case moving to SPAN costs $20.5k minus the rebate which covers about sales tax. It would have been nice to have this SPAN panel but with 200A I think we don't absolutely need a smart panel.

I probably will just add current clamps to the two panels to check on power usage. I know some on these forum use such solutions and integrate it into HS4/HSTouch. I need to look into those.

[TC1]

If your only goal was to simply measure current draw, then yes, there are much cheaper and easier ways to do that.

A Smart Panel is for folks looking for true operational energy management capabilities, which is not the same as simply monitoring. In my next house I definitely see at least one EV in my garage, solar panels, and either storage batteries or a backup generator. That's where the Smart Panel's strengths will shine in automatically managing of all those capabilities.

[mulu]

My goal wasn't just measuring current draw. We will get a hybrid in a couple of years, later an EV, add solar before they switch to net metering 3.0, switch to heat pumps, an NG generator (since we now depend much more on electricity) etc. So having a smart panel would have been nice but not $20k nice...

[TC1]

I still don't understand this statement:

Due to CA code we have to keep the original 200A electrical panel.

I have yet to read a user review of the SPAN panel where this was ever mentioned and why.

[ewkearns]

The panel has to be installed by a licensed electrician, that's true in any municipality in the USA. This is basically the electrician signing off on the install and assuring the company has an accurate representation of the setup/install. Not sure how this would be an issue?

Unless you refer solely to proprietary stuff, not true, here. I've installed panels and meter bases before. Then one calls the town inspector, gets the approval and sign-off for work performed, and contacts the utility to plug the meter in and attach the tamper seal. Then you are in business for no more charges than the inspection and parts.

PS
My point was that if proprietary software is needed for "commissioning," do trivial changes break the "commissioning" and require an "approved installer" to get you working again? How much and how long would one find themselves beholding to the manufacturer for the continued usability of the system?

[TC1]

Unless you refer solely to proprietary stuff, not true, here. I've installed panels and meter bases before. Then one calls the town inspector, gets the approval and sign-off for work performed, and contacts the utility to plug the meter in and attach the tamper seal. Then you are in business for no more charges than the inspection and parts.

PS
My point was that if proprietary software is needed for "commissioning," do trivial changes break the "commissioning" and require an "approved installer" to get you working again? How much and how long would one find themselves beholding to the manufacturer for the continued usability of the system?

On your first point, that is definitely YMMV. Here in NY, almost all municipalities require a licensed plumber or electrician to do major changes in your house. Changing out an electrical panel would definitely fall into that category. I know that in California, because of the risk of earthquakes upsetting structures, they are also very strict about this type of work.

On your second point, reading through their materials, it's clear (to me) that they addressed your concern. The installer app is just a convivence so that all the pertinent information can be gathered and uploaded to the company after the electrician/installer is finished. They go on to state (as I indicated in another message in this thread) if you make changes to the panel such as breakers, adding, circuits, etc, you simply need to contact them to ensure the management software has captured those changes accurately. This can all be done by the homeowner.

If they go out of business tomorrow, your panel still operates just fine.

[mulu]

I still don't understand this statement:

"Due to CA code we have to keep the original 200A electrical panel."

I have yet to read a user review of the SPAN panel where this was ever mentioned and why.

Maybe SPAN doesn't have that many customers yet... Or maybe nobody cares having the SPAN panel next to the almost empty main panel... Who knows. But according to SPAN, CA, AZ and FL require a meter-main panel with a main disconnect switch. I guess(!) it has to be something like the image below where the the meter and main disconnect are in the same unit. That means the SPAN becomes a subpanel. I don't know if that has any code complications but in my case it prevents connecting the SPAN panel through circuit breakers in the main panel. That's because our (and supposedly many other) main panel only allows up to 100A circuits. A 200A connection can be accomplished via the bus bar, though. Then from the SPAN panel I would need a connection to our 100A sub panel but SPAN only allows 90A so I am loosing 10A which isn't ideal because we have multiple high amperage connections on that sub panel. Maybe I could leave the current 100A circuit inside the main panel as for my existing subpanel I would need another SPAN panel anyways.

I might just go with something like the smart Leviton circuit breakers. I am currently investigating that route. Scheider supposedly also has a smart panel with an API so that might be another option.

As for API, SPAN hasn't anything ready yet that they could publish. Maybe sometime down the road but it sounded like it will take a good amount of time.

[mulu]

I am getting closer to adding solar and might upgrade our panel from a 200A/200A to a 200A/225A main electrical panel. SPAN is probably out of question as they are just cost prohibitive. They also still have that 90A subpanel limitation where we have the 50A car charger and other high-amperage appliances. So I am wondering if anybody uses something else for smart panels that can also be monitored or even managed by HS.