New construction + conduit = Pain!

[Warez]

Jeez why's this gotta be such a pain ?

My builder had said I could run my own CAT5e, RG6, speaker, etc. I asked my him about also running a few hundred feet of Carlon flexible conduit to the wallboxes. He said I should check with the city inspector first. Well, I emailed him and here the response I received:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>With the prior permission of both the builder and the electrical contractor of record and on a case by case basis, the city may give permission to the buyer of the residence to install signal cable products only - not voltage wiring or electrical outlets. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>MAY??? May give permission? What the heck?

Has anyone else had any issues running conduit(for low-voltage wiring) in a new construction?

Thanks,
-Gabriel

[DC]

What does "may" mean in this context? May as in "yes, you may" or may as in "might" or "maybe"? It sounds to me like they are saying "yes, you may install signal cable if your builder and electrician give permission".

Why do you want to put these wires in conduit? Seems like that would be a lot of added expense and work with little benefit. Does your city require these types of wires to be in conduit?

[Warez]

Because of the roof angles, many of the outside walls will be impossible to get to if I later decide to run RG6, Cat5, etc. to that wall.

Example:
Wife says kid's bedroom furniture will be arranged so that TV will be against east wall. Six months later, wife decides to rearrange. TV now needs to be on west wall. There's no way to get into that wall... what now?
I'd like to anticipate this and have an empty wallbox and conduit there so that it'll be easy to run new wiring to this side of the room.

(Even if I could get access to the top of an outside wall, trying to run a wire through the insulation's gotta be pain.)

[Warez]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DC:
It sounds to me like they are saying "yes, you may install signal cable if your builder and electrician give permission". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking the same thing until I read this part of the email:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Should the buyer decide hire a third party contractor or individual to
install such items, the third party contractor must contact the City for
permission to install signal cable products prior to the start of the
installation process. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why would it be OK for the buyer/owner, but a third party would need to get special permission?

(I'm confused)

[DC]

It's very common to be allowed to do a lot of things for yourself, but doing the same things for other people requires a license, or permit or approval such as this.

Have you given the city proof that your builder and electrician approve (whatever proof the city wants -- a letter perhaps) and asked them for written approval to proceed? They may be giving you a generic answer and all you have to do is meet their conditions and you'll be good to go.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'd like to anticipate this and have an empty wallbox and conduit there so that it'll be easy to run new wiring to this side of the room.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would be much easier, and probably cheaper, to just run the wiring during construction than empty conduit. I ran two RG6 and two Cat-5 to a lot of walls that I may never use (two walls in almost every room, in fact). They are terminated in a double-gang box with Leviton modular connectors so they look very neat. If I ever do need to use them, all I have to do is go into the equipment room and connect the other end.

[Warez]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DC:
It would be much easier, and probably cheaper, to just run the wiring during construction than empty conduit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I thought about this and calculated what I would need. The RG6 alone was over 52 cables! This is more than twice what would actually be connected at a given time. I just can't see where I'd stuff all that extra, unused cable.

[BarryP]

Hi
Have You considered Using the top or bottom of a cupboard space or a recessed space in each room as a small patchbay area for 1 or 2 rooms.I use this method to "Lock in concrete" Audio & video Equip that doesn't really have to move around in a room.
I.E. 2* RG6 to cupboard from Main wiring closit. (In/Out)
You Might have 3 Locations in the room that are potential TV outlets & perhaps 2 locations where you might like to have a vcr/dvd.
There ends up being 9 cables at the mini patchbay and only 2 down to the wiring closet
& Perhaps a conduit ..
Use the same principal for audio & data.

[DC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The RG6 alone was over 52 cables! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ouch. You must be building a huge house. I built a rather large house and really overwired it (2 or 4 RG6 to every room except laundry and bathrooms) and I didn't have 52 cables.

It might be less expensive for you to install empty conduit instead of home-running all that cable. But be careful with flex conduit. If you have long runs, or runs with tight (90 degree or more) bends, it's not easy to pull cable through it.

[BrettS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warez:
I'd like to anticipate this and have an empty wallbox and conduit there so that it'll be easy to run new wiring to this side of the room.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If this is all you plan on doing you might be able to get around this if your builder gives you permission. Technically you're not running *any* wire - low voltage or otherwise. You're simply running plastic tubes through your walls. Obviously this is so you'll be able to run wire later, but because you're not doing any wireing at the moment you might be able to get away with it.

[Rick Tinker]

If you do run tubing for pulling wires later, keep in mind that in probably every case, you need/should cap the ends of the tube to pass the fire inspection. Tubes that can draw air from one floor can fuel a fire in another floor.

When you do run the wires, get some plumber's putty (the kind they use to seal sump pump openings - like clay) and put it at the ends of the tube to prevent air infiltration.

[smoothtlk]

Seems most local code authorities are OK with the homeowner running low voltage. But, with an extensive installation, scares them. My brother added a ton of low voltage, only to have the inspector put a hold on the overall work until the low voltage wiring was put onto the architect's plans. This delayed his house several months!!

My suggestion is to meet in person with the inspector, show him what you intend to do, and then work with him to get his concerns addressed and finally approved.

[jon00]

Wow - We must be lucky in the UK about running cables in a property. We can pretty much do what we like - mains or signal!

[DC]

Obviously every jurisdiction is going to be different so don't put too much stock in the information you get here. Like DavidL said, you need to consult with the inspector in your area and find out exactly what you can and cannot do.

I did all the control and low voltage wiring in my house (telephone, intercom, network, cable TV, whole house audio, security cameras and power for security cameras) and could have done all the electrical wiring if I had had time. My house is not in the city limits so there were no inspections whatsoever (except plumbing which is regulated by the state rather than the city -- go figure). Had it been in the city, I still could have done all the non-electrical wiring. We had plans drawn by an architect but it did not include electrical plans. That was an (expensive) option that we elected not to do because a good, experienced electrician can do a better job designing the electrical system than most architects can.

[Stevech]

the fellow next door to my 2nd home is a small contractor - builds spec houses. Here's how he deals with permits and inspections:
Don't ask. Just Do It. Apologize profusely.
He gets and ignores threatening letters from the County code officers, to include warnings of fines and so on. They never, never, follow through.

Code enforcement is essentially non-existent in most cities.

Now I heartily disapprove of this for some things, like his grading of his hillside lot without a permit, and his use of on site trailers in violation of codes.

But his tactics work well. Plays upon the County officials being L-A-Z-Y.

Works for him.
Not so good for the neighbors.

[JLehnert]

That sure wouldn't work around here. The inspector slaps a "do-not-work" order on you, and the fine for breaking it starts at $500/day, increasing with each violation. Also, if the inspector downchecks something, then you cannot get an occupancy permit from the county. No occupancy = unable to meet mortgage requirements = possibly losing the house = A REALLY BAD THING! I know of one person who built an addition without the correct permits, and they made him tear the entire thing down. The appeals went all the way to the state supreme court, losing everytime. He ended up spending twice as much in lawyers fees as he did on the addition.

Warez,
Do things the old fashioned way. Get on the phone and talk directly to the inspector. Yes, it will be a PITA to actually catch him in the office, but it will be worth the effort. The answer you received sounds like the usual BS that you get from a bureaucrat when they don't really understand what you are asking.