Two X10 coupler-repeaters OK?

[DC]

My HS system is in my house. I have a detached shop about 50' from the house. The shop has a separate meter and main breaker panel than the house but, because the house and shop are on the same utility company transformer, I can send X10 signals to the shop fairly reliably.

However, I have a couple of inline modules, on shop circuits, that control landscape lights that don't always respond to X10 signals. About 1 out of 10 days the lights don't come on when they are supposed to. The last two times I noticed this, I was working in the shop at dusk so I suspect the signal is getting attenuated because of something that's on in the shop that isn't on when I'm not there. It could be anything from the flourescent ceiling lights (there are 24 of them) to a 5 HP table saw. In fact when the table saw (or any other machine) is running so is a 3 HP dust collection system so there is quite a bit of motor noise on the line at that time. I don't think it's machinery because I have HS send the X10 ON commands twice with a 3 minute delay. I was using machinery yesterday when this happened, but not a lot so it would be coincidental if I had a machine on both times HS sent the signal (but it's possible). I think it's more likely that the flourescent ceiling lights are the culprit.

X10 modules that are on house circuits are not affected. Those lights came on when they were supposed to yesterday.

I already have a coupler-repeater (Leviton, I believe) installed in a breaker panel in my house. Could I put a second coupler-repeater in a breaker panel in the shop? If they would not interfere with each other, I believe that second repeater might strengthen X10 signals enough to ensure they get through the noise to the problematic modules.

Thanks.

[Rupp]

If it's only a few lights not responding one of these may very well be the ticket. Martin is very good about working with customers as well.

-Rupp

[DC]

Thanks Rupp.

Martin, do those work as advertised?

[Rupp]

Here is a recent thread where Martin was commenting on them.

http://ubb.homeseer.com/6/ubb.x?a=tp...715#7426033715

-Rupp

[Czechmarty]

Best explanation when it comes to using couplers/repeaters gave "Uncle Kingery" in his articles. See his articles III and IV.

http://www.act-solutions.com/uncle.htm

Martin

[AutomatedOutlet]

Couple of things.

1) Yes, those BoosterLincs do work very well.

2) A Leviton coupler/repeater does not repeat x10 signals, only extended codes. That's why they are only $60....

3) If you really want to do this right, I'll have to look it up but you'll have to run a wire between the two buildings and put a coupler on each end. I think it might just be a neutral wire but I'll have to check. I'm in the process of doing this now but I'll be doing it a little differently. I'm putting in X10 firewall boxes and running a CAT5 between them.

I'll check on the wiring and post back.

Martin Custer
Martin@AutomatedOutlet.com
www.AutomatedOutlet.com
Authorized HomeSeer Distributor

[DC]

I ordered a Boosterlinc. I'll post the results when I get it installed.

Martin, my coupler-repeater may not be a Leviton. I can't remember specifically what it is, and would have to remove my breaker cover panel to find out, but I'm pretty sure it was advertised as a signal amplifier and coupler/repeater. It cost quite a bit more than $60 I think. When I have a chance, I'll find out exactly what it is so maybe you can tell me if I'm going to have problems using it and a Boosterlinc.

Thanks for the help.

[DC]

I got my Boosterlinc and plugged it in. Since it is essentially a "repeater", I expected to see "X10 received" entries in the HS log when the Boosterlinc repeats an X10 command. For example, if HS sends "H2 ON", I would expect to see an "X10 received H2 ON" entry immediately afterwards. That is not happening. How can I confirm that the Boosterlinc is actually working?

[rocco]

DC, The BoosterLinc is an amplifier, not a repeater.

A repeater takes a weak x10 signal and repeats it at a higher amplitude, but after the original address or command completes. The BoosterLinc amplifies the original signal as it is being transmitted, so there is no extra messages in the log.

A signal-strength meter is the only way I can think of to be sure it is working.

[BrettS]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the boosterlinc works like this -

Every X-10 command is sent out twice. If you want to turn on device A1 then homeseer will send out the following to the powerline -

A1 A1 AON AON

This is simply for better reliability. Even if only one of the commands gets through to the device it will still turn on. The amplifiers (and repeaters, I believe) take advantage of this. They'll listen for the first command, then amplify it and broadcast it at the same time homeseer (or any other controller) broadcasts the second command. This way each command isn't actually duplicated. In most cases it wouldn't be bad if an On or Off was sent twice, but it would be bad for Dim commands.

When you send an A1 On with your boosterlinc plugged in the signals on your powerline will look like this -

A1 A1 AON AON

(the commands in bold are the ones that are amplified)

HTH,
Brett

[bruce l]

Martin - I've seen your comment on the Leviton coupler/repeater before. I have a Leviton HCA02 and I've check with a X10 signal analyzer with the HCA02 on & off. The HCA02 is definatly amplifying the signal. I just sent A1 on every 3 second from HS. That is not an extended code.

This is from Leviton's site and they don't mention only extended codes:
http://www.leviton.com/sections/prod...ts/coupler.htm
This is a review (from link on Leviton site): http://www.leviton.com/sections/prod...d/npleadin.htm


I don't mean to hijack this thread or to be argumentative but my tests show different than you claims. I have no affiliation with Leviton so if their device really does not do what it claims I want to know. Could you please provide more info to support you claims so I can learn more about this.

[rocco]

Brett:
Your description is certainly correct for a regular coupler/repeater, and it may also be correct for the BoosterLinc, but the SmartHome people are telling me that the BoosterLinc is different.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>From the Smarthome web-page:
How Does BoosterLinc Work?
BoosterLinc immediately recognizes every "bit" of X10/PLC signal on the powerline, synchs up with the transmitter and co-generates a transmission, in real-time until the end of that bit's transmission. Traditional coupler/repeaters wait until a complete X10/PLC frame/command is received and then co-generate the entire command while the original transmitter sends its 2nd (redundant) frame/signal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[glt]

I believe Bruce L is correct regarding the HCA 02.

GLT

[BraveSirRobbin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The HCA02 is definatly amplifying the signal. I just sent A1 on every 3 second from HS. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BruceL:

Do you mean "amplifying" or "repeating"?

[bruce l]

What I see is the 1st X10 coming across at a low level, then a 2nd copy at a much higher level. So I know the repeater is amplifying the 2nd copy. I just feel there is some confusion on what it really does ( maybe on my part).