Need Advice on X10 Noise Problem

[mterry63]

Well, I guess I've been lucky that I've had a reasonably well performing X-10 based system for 8 years.

Not without a price - I use plug in filters on all TVs and computers in the house. I have a Leviton HCA02-10E coupler/repeater installed on my water heater line.

In the last 4-5 days I've had a serious noise problem introduced externally. The "error" LED on the HCA02-10E flashes continuously on 1 second intervals like clockwork. Whatever the rogue signal is, it's playing hell with my X-10 reliability.

The worst problem is with my Leviton HXC4D-1TW controllers. They are 8 button with bright/dim. I use them to control lights and initiate events within Homeseer. The Intellisense built into these devices appears to be aware of the noise, as they will try and try to wait for a "clear line" and frequently fail. One that I have in the master bath flashed for 15 minutes before it finally executed the commands!

Needless to say the WAF has tanked significantly. Control by Homeseer directly is also hit or miss. I have a Ocelot as my X-10 interface and it doesn't wait for an opening, but it also frequently collides with the noise and doesn't execute the intended command. My Homeseer log is filled with random X10 commands and status queries in House codes all over the spectrum. It doesn't see every pulse of noise as a valid X-10 command, just every now and then.

Troubleshooting so far:

Here in South Texas we has a sub-panel for the house circuits. This split phase box is located in the garage and is fed from a 70 Amp 2 phase breaker from the main box outside the house. I've shut off ALL single phase breakers in the sub panel and still see the error pulse on the HCA02-10E every second.

I'm assuming it's external as all the 2 phase breakers are Water Heater/Dryer/AC, etc. I could shut them all down as well just to be sure.

So, since I'm assuming it's external, and in for the long haul that it likely won't go away, I'm looking for a way to eliminate it.

After some research today I have a Leviton 6284 Whole House Blocking Coupler and a Leviton 6285 Signal Attenuator on order. I have questions for anyone who has experience with either of these:

- Is the 6284 Blocking Couple effective at removing "non X-10" signals?

- Can the 6284 Blocking Coupler be used in conjunction with the HCA02-10E?

- How do you install the 6285 Signal Attenuator without attenuating your OWN X-10 signals?

Any other suggestions?

So far looking around the neighborhood I can't imagine any change that might be causing this. I certainly don't look forward to going door to door asking if people have plugged something in recently that might be processing something "once a second". I don't think the signal is X-10 related, really.

Thanks for any advice.

[Steve Q]

I have been using X10 stuff for over 10 years and have had periods where it was very unreliable and periods when it worked perfectly. When it did not work well I found that it was almost always due to a failure of one of the X10 devices. So start by unplugging everything X10 related. Then readd them one at a time. This should help you identify the source of the interference.

Steve Q

[TeleFragger]

I do not know about the x10 whole house deal... I have seen them and wondered if they would help.. but im the only one in my neighborhood who does this stuff...

usually 99% of the time.. when stuff acts up.... I try and see what the last thing I plugged in was since the time of failure... all the way down to a powerstrip... I had a isobar power strip in the kitchen killing the x10 floodlight out back..... smart ups 1000 in basement killing the utility room light.....


you say you killed most of the breakers.... I would keep going... until they are ALL OFF!!!!!! hah... seriously.. .I would keep going... wonder if an appliance is starting to go bad and causing noise????

how are you bridging the phases?? you say 70a sub pannel... im not familiar with that setup....

~Jeff

[BraveSirRobbin]

You should consider getting an X-10 signal meter to help with your troubleshooting. Vendors such as AutomatedOutlet have them for temporary use for free (you pay shipping).

One of my favorite posts on X-10 noise issues is THIS one.

[mterry63]

I have a Leviton HCA02-10E coupler/repeater that is coupling the phases and is assisting in identifying the problem.

I also have an ELK ESM1 meter. I have minimum 1V X-10 signal strength everywhere I check, as high as 2.5 on some breakers. This is pretty normal from what I have written down in previous checks. Of course, the noise pulses about 1/2 a volt every second and doesn't show as valid X-10. When I turn on the HCA02-10E test signal (P1) the meter sees valid X-10 as long as there isn't a collision with the noise.

It's true I didn't kill all the 2 phase breakers, but I doubt the water heater is injecting noise, especially a pulse every second.

It really appears the problem is external, but that's the rub - I can't eliminate the problem, I can only try to keep it out. As it turns out the blocking coupler I ordered from Worthington is on back order.

[mterry63]

I read BraveSirRobbin's link, and it is a good one. I was an electronic technician for years and have a fairly good understanding of electricity. I think I have my signal suckers tamed (I've got a butload of filters on troublemakers). My problem seems to be an external jamming source in the X-10 frequency, not a lack of signal strength.

I'm still plugging at it. I'm hoping having P1 On/Off running a few hours tonight played hell with whatever it is. If I'm lucky maybe they'll take their toys and play elsewhere...

[mterry63]

Just to follow up, apparently my 3 hours of P On / P Off X-10 signals caused my noisy friend to pack it in. The problem stopped that night and has not returned since. Everything has been normal since.

[mnsandler]

You should consider getting an X-10 signal meter to help with your troubleshooting. Vendors such as AutomatedOutlet have them for temporary use for free (you pay shipping).

One of my favorite posts on X-10 noise issues is THIS one.

please be aware that AO does not provide the testing for absolutely free.

see the following url

http://www.automatedoutlet.com/produ...3&cat=0&page=1

[jgary]

I have an interesting X10 problem with a few modules upstairs in two rooms. The lights will turn on and off on light modules but they will not dim. This has occurred after a power outtage that lasted about 4 hours when a transformer blew down the street and the power was restored. I have not added any new eletrical devices. I have unplugged several different devices but have not yet had time to go through everthing since this involves the home office.

It seems strange it only disables the two rooms X10 lamp devices to dim and not turn on and off.

Any one seen this before as a noise issue with X10 dimming?

[nightwalker]

noise usually causes operational control of any sort to go south, not usually just the dim function. If it took a spike as the power came back on it's possible you have a chip about to fail or at least on the edge. Have you one of the x10 meters to test with to see what kind of signal or noise you're dealing with?

[jgary]

Nope don't have any X10 meter to trace any signals.

[nightwalker]

If you're going to use X10 they're a good tool to keep in the box for these occasions. Unless you're really lucky, and since we're talking about this you're not, I'd suggest a quick search and pick one up. It's not too late for santa to bring you one.

[sjaffe1]

I just installed a Leviton coupler/repeater in place of my old X-10 PRO XPCR repeater which stopped working. The X-10 PRO may have stopped working due to line noise but since it has absolutely no visual communication cues, I couldn't tell. The Leviton's error light is blinking red about once per second as described in the previous post.

My question is to other Leviton owners. Is the error light usually blinking or is this abnormal? My signals appear to be repeated correctly (although I haven't completed a thorough test yet). Does anyone have a Leviton that does not have the error light blinking?

[nightwalker]

I may not be the best source for this as I converted to UPB a few years ago but, I do still have the Leviton Coupler/Repeater installed as a I have a few palm-pads and a couple of X10 mini timers still running on X10. I just went to look at it and it has a steady green light, no blinking. Like I said not a lot of X10 signals bouncing around here anymore so take it for what it's worth.

[sjaffe1]

Thanks Marty. That's enough for me to go looking for the bleed.