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    Balancing Heating and Humidity

    Temperatures in the MW have fluctuated some in the last week or so. When the temps dropped to below 15F I cranked a bit (manually) on the humidifier. Typically like the humidity in the house in the upper 30's like between 35-40%. This morning almost every window in the house had moisture on it and the humidity average (via three humidity sensors) was about 50% (way too much).

    I think its time that I automate the humidity sensor to work with the automation system and thermostat.

    My current humidifier is:

    Aprilaire 600 with the controller on the supply in the basement. I believe there is a temperature sensor outide to which its connected to.

    Ideally would like to leave the controller in place but be able to override it with automation.
    - Pete

    Auto mator
    Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb- Mono 6.12.X - HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets
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    #2
    I have an Aprilaire 600 set up exactly like yours with the outside temp sensor. Mine has been working perfectly with the temp swings here (Minnesota), holding the humidity between 35-40%. What do you have the aprilaire control set at? Mine's set at about 32.
    It seems to me like you either have your control set too high or the control isn't turning off the humidifier. Try turning the control knob and listen or feel for it to click when it passes the set point. The humidifier will actually put out more moisture the colder it is because the furnace is running more. It takes warm air through the humidifier for it to put out much moisture.
    Dick
    HS PRO 2.5.0.81, WinXP, IE8, Shuttle XS35V3, 2.13GHz, 4GB, 40GB SSD drive, AC-RF2, ADIOcelot, Message Server, TI103, SNEVL CID, pjcOutlook, MCSTemperature, Powertrigger, BLBackup, BLFloorplan, BLIcon, BLOccupied, BLRadar, BLRfid, BLLogMonitor, ACPUPSD, UltraECM, WeatherXML & Stipus' script connector. 500+ devices, 260+ events, 1-wire weather station + temp/humidity sensors & Oregon Scientific temp & humidity sensors & 2 Brultech ECM-1240s

    Comment


      #3
      I think this table is in the Aprilaire manual... if the indoor humidity is any higher than this then you will get condensation on the windows and it could cause structural damage window seals and such...

      I have always felt that I wanted the humidity higher to try to avoid a crack that opens up between the ceiling sheetrock and the wall of my cathedral ceiling, but I have found I can only minimize it with the humidifier.

      I have an Aprilaire #58 controller that uses the outside temperature to adjust the indoor humidity (on/off runtime of humidifier). You can make slight reference adjustment by moving the dial to more or less. I have mine at setting 4 and it is 23F outside and 32% humidity inside right now. I was getting too much condensation at setting 5.



      Suggested Indoor Humidity Settings
      <center><table align="center" border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="3"> <tbody> <tr> <td> Outside Temperature
      </td> <td style="text-align: center;"> -10 F
      </td> <td style="text-align: center;"> 0 F
      </td> <td style="text-align: center;"> 10 F
      </td> <td style="text-align: center;"> 20 F
      </td> <td style="text-align: center;"> 30 F
      </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Recommended Indoor
      Relative Humidity

      </td> <td style="text-align: center;"> 20%
      </td> <td style="text-align: center;"> 25%
      </td> <td style="text-align: center;"> 30%
      </td> <td style="text-align: center;"> 35%
      </td> <td style="text-align: center;"> 35%
      </td> </tr> </tbody> </table></center>

      Comment


        #4
        Thank-you.

        Yes I "cranked" not utilizing the scale but more listening to the click and above.

        I know that I should not have done that. When I mentioned automating my humidity control my HVAC person (old friend - 30 years) told me not to and that the control was in the ideal spot. He saids the same though for anything I do or propose to do with my HVAC setup.

        Is the Aprilaire controller getting its humidity reading from inside the duct or outside of the duct (basement). I am asking because I recently added a combo temperature and humdity sensor in the basement.

        Current outside temperature: 10 F or so.
        Current humidity reads are (after re-adjusting humidifier control)
        Basement - 25%
        Main floor Kitchen - 32%
        2nd MB - 40%
        - Pete

        Auto mator
        Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb- Mono 6.12.X - HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets
        Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.12.X
        HS4 Pro - V4.1.11.0 - Ubuntu 20.01/VB W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb - Mono
        6.10.0.104
        HS4 Lite -

        X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Smartthings hub, Hubitat Hub, and Home Assistant

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          #5
          Originally posted by Pete View Post
          Is the Aprilaire controller getting its humidity reading from inside the duct or outside of the duct (basement).
          My controller is mounted right on/into the return air duct on my furnace. It senses the humidity inside the controller which is therefore inside the return air duct. The remote sensor is just used to sense the outside temperature so it can bias the setpoint lower as the outside temperature goes down.
          I monitor when my humidifier actually turns on and off and even with it near 0 F today, it has cycled off/on at least once today, so I know it is 'controlling' the humidity.
          Dick
          HS PRO 2.5.0.81, WinXP, IE8, Shuttle XS35V3, 2.13GHz, 4GB, 40GB SSD drive, AC-RF2, ADIOcelot, Message Server, TI103, SNEVL CID, pjcOutlook, MCSTemperature, Powertrigger, BLBackup, BLFloorplan, BLIcon, BLOccupied, BLRadar, BLRfid, BLLogMonitor, ACPUPSD, UltraECM, WeatherXML & Stipus' script connector. 500+ devices, 260+ events, 1-wire weather station + temp/humidity sensors & Oregon Scientific temp & humidity sensors & 2 Brultech ECM-1240s

          Comment


            #6
            Yes... I also have the Aprilaire #58 automatic humidity controller mounted on the return duct right before the furnace assembly. The humidity sensor sticks out of the back of the controller and into the return duct airflow. The outside temperature sensor is mounted on the outside of the house under an overhang on the north side of the house to prevent solar loading.

            Comment


              #7
              Dick,

              What are you using to monitor the on/off of the humidifier? Are you using the voltage to the humidifier to trigger a switch?

              Megatron2,

              I believe my temperature sensor is inside or near my outside AC unit/compressor. I didn't know you could move it.
              - Pete

              Auto mator
              Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb- Mono 6.12.X - HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets
              Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.12.X
              HS4 Pro - V4.1.11.0 - Ubuntu 20.01/VB W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb - Mono
              6.10.0.104
              HS4 Lite -

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              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Pete View Post
                Dick,

                What are you using to monitor the on/off of the humidifier? Are you using the voltage to the humidifier to trigger a switch?
                I'm using a powerflash module connected (if I remember right ) to a bridge rectifier to convert the AC power to the humidifier to DC and drop the voltage to an acceptable level for the powerflash.
                Dick
                HS PRO 2.5.0.81, WinXP, IE8, Shuttle XS35V3, 2.13GHz, 4GB, 40GB SSD drive, AC-RF2, ADIOcelot, Message Server, TI103, SNEVL CID, pjcOutlook, MCSTemperature, Powertrigger, BLBackup, BLFloorplan, BLIcon, BLOccupied, BLRadar, BLRfid, BLLogMonitor, ACPUPSD, UltraECM, WeatherXML & Stipus' script connector. 500+ devices, 260+ events, 1-wire weather station + temp/humidity sensors & Oregon Scientific temp & humidity sensors & 2 Brultech ECM-1240s

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks Dick.
                  - Pete

                  Auto mator
                  Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb- Mono 6.12.X - HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets
                  Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.12.X
                  HS4 Pro - V4.1.11.0 - Ubuntu 20.01/VB W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb - Mono
                  6.10.0.104
                  HS4 Lite -

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                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Pete View Post
                    Dick,

                    What are you using to monitor the on/off of the humidifier? Are you using the voltage to the humidifier to trigger a switch?

                    Megatron2,

                    I believe my temperature sensor is inside or near my outside AC unit/compressor. I didn't know you could move it.
                    If your humidifier controller is automatic like the Aprilaire 58, then the temperature sensor is definitely suppose to be outside to detect the outside ambient temperature. It adjusts water line on/off timing based on table that references current indoor humidity vs current outside temperature. The lower the outside temperature the lower the humidity should be in your house (as in the table in my first post)...

                    I have heard of people putting the outside temperature sensor in the pvc pipe that feeds fresh air from outside to their furnace combustion chamber, but it has to be within a few inches of the openning on the outside end. This only applies to newer high efficiancy gas furnaces.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thanks Megatron2
                      - Pete

                      Auto mator
                      Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb- Mono 6.12.X - HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets
                      Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.12.X
                      HS4 Pro - V4.1.11.0 - Ubuntu 20.01/VB W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb - Mono
                      6.10.0.104
                      HS4 Lite -

                      X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Smartthings hub, Hubitat Hub, and Home Assistant

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Ideally then I would like to both monitor on/off the humidity control and also be able to override controller. I believe it would be a simple circuit. Anyone try this yet?
                        - Pete

                        Auto mator
                        Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb- Mono 6.12.X - HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets
                        Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.12.X
                        HS4 Pro - V4.1.11.0 - Ubuntu 20.01/VB W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb - Mono
                        6.10.0.104
                        HS4 Lite -

                        X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Smartthings hub, Hubitat Hub, and Home Assistant

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hey Pete,

                          I did a similar setup with my humidifier under post...<O</O
                          http://forums.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=139274

                          I've since tweaked my thresholds to prevent moisture buildup on the inside of my windows; however, it's not perfect as w/humidity, it moves slow up/down. Unless you are micro managing it with dehumidifiers and using HVAC steam humidifiers (expensive to buy/run). In the morning we might have about 25% and it will take about 4-5 hours to get us to 40%. However, we are 3500 sqft w/alot of wood floors, tile and a home that has been air sealed (10-18% air changes per hour).



                          You'll also notice that we turn only the 2nd floor HVAC fan on. This closes the dampers in the basement and 1st floor for the purpose of increasing air velocity through our desert springs HVAC humidifier.<O</O
                          http://www.desertspringproducts.com/desertspring/humidifiers_rotary.asp

                          We are also using:<O</O
                          - HM-TS001 to read our humidity levels every 30 mins<O</O
                          - An external thermometer is attached to our Zoned RCS Serial HVAC stats, which is also tied into HS

                          I know many of you might have done this much cleaner; however, this is the best I could come up with until such time as HS incorporates true IF/THEN/ELSE triggers and/or I'm able to script it.

                          Well, I was notifed my post was too big...
                          Added event into a .doc file and attached.

                          - Chad
                          <O</O
                          Attached Files

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