X10 Alternatives with HS

[mmn]

I've been an HS user for 10 years or so, My setup has about 25 X10 devices, some wireless devices and many events controlling things like pool pump, sprinklers, lights, sensors, etc.

Lately I've been experiencing a lot of random stuff going on with the X10 devices. I am not so far able to pinpoint the problem and I think it actually may be multiple problems. Things don't turn on when they should or don't turn off when they should or turn on/off at random. I've looked at the various testing methods and devices, but I don't think I want to throw more money down the X10 hole. Could be wrong, though.

I am thinking of moving from X10 to some other control protocol and I'm looking for advice. I guess the two main issues I have are reliability and status/feedback from devices. For instance, I only know an X10 command has been sent. I don't know if the device responded or actually did what I asked it to. That wasn't really a factor until the reliability issues cropped up, but it's now at an unacceptable level.

Thanks for any and all advice.

Regards
Michael

[Rupp]

The major replacements in this area are Z-Wave, UPB, and Insteon. I would recommend trying a few of each and see which you like best. I use the best of what each offers and have had good luck using all 3 at once. Z-Wave can be polled for it's status, Insteon and UPB show instant status.

[Uncle Michael]

I do not have experience with Z-Wave or Insteon, but have been experimenting with UPB as a migration path from my current Compose system. I've been quite impressed with UPB from a reliability standpoint, but you'll find the cost is at least an order of magnitude higher than a basic X10 setup.

There's also a learning curve moving from X10, but the UPStart software is helpful. The biggest hurdle for me is the difference in design philosophy for the two systems. You definitely need to approach the task of installing an integrated UPB lighting system from a different perspective than one based on X10.

Fortunately, the various systems can work with one another, so you can keep the X10 stuff that works acceptably (or has no equivalent) and replace the parts that you are unhappy with.

[Rupp]

You definitely need to approach the task of installing an integrated UPB lighting system from a different perspective than one based on X10.

Mike,
Can you elaborate on what you mean here. I'm not sure I'm following what you are saying.

[madmellow]

I have experienced similar problems with X10. I installed filters on my suspicious devices and installed a Coupler/Repeater Signal Booster. I eventually discovered that one of my GFI outlets was causing a problem (accidentally tripped the outlet, things returned to normal after a reset). You may want to check that.

I'm starting my migration to Insteon -- reliable and less expensive than the others. So far, so good.

Good luck.

[Uncle Michael]

Mike,
Can you elaborate on what you mean here. I'm not sure I'm following what you are saying.

What I'm thinking of is that X10 and a system based on it can be (and usually is) pretty ad hoc. With UPB you cannot just install a device, set its address and send it a command. You need to tell UPStart (the PIM, actually) where the devices are and what you intend them to do. You also, at least eventually, have to get your head around "links" and what they can (and can't) add to the system's capabilities. Once you start using links, a UPB system can diverge significantly from one based on X10.

[Rupp]

What I'm thinking of is that X10 and a system based on it can be (and usually is) pretty ad hoc. With UPB you cannot just install a device, set its address and send it a command. You need to tell UPStart (the PIM, actually) where the devices are and what you intend them to do. You also, at least eventually, have to get your head around "links" and what they can (and can't) add to the system's capabilities. Once you start using links, a UPB system can diverge significantly from one based on X10.

Ah, gotcha. All true and good information for a new user. We sometimes forget about all the steps of adding new devices when we haven't done it in a while. It's a shame something as easy as X10 but much more reliable hasn't come along. Most new users will look at you like you have 2 heads if you tell them that light switch cost $75

[mmn]

I was somehow hoping there was a clear frontrunner since some of these alternatives have been out awhile. And I wasn't looking forward to experimenting any more.

I know a little about Z-Wave = I looked at it a bit when it first came out - but nothing about the other two. Gotta go do some reading I guess.

Thanks for the advice. Exactly what I was looking for.

Regards
Michael

[Rupp]

We're here if you have any questions.

[tenholde]

One thing I love about UPB is that HomeSeer always knows the status of every UPB device in my house. If I turn a light ON/OFF manually, UPB sends status to HomeSeer.

I've been reading about Z-Wave, and it seems that instead of reporting status changes, you must 'poll' Z-Wave devices. Is this done automatically by HomeSeer? Does HS ALWAYS know the status of Z-Wave devices?

tenholde

[Rupp]

.. reading about Z-Wave, and it seems that instead of reporting status changes, you must 'poll' Z-Wave devices. Is this done automatically by HomeSeer? Does HS ALWAYS know the status of Z-Wave devices? tenholde

Polling is set on each device, so you set polling on the devices that you care about the status of.

[tenholde]

With polling set on for a device, when is it polled? If I turn a device ON manually, how long before HS knows that it is ON?
tenholde

[Rupp]

With polling set on for a device, when is it polled? If I turn a device ON manually, how long before HS knows that it is ON?
tenholde

Say you set the polling at 30 seconds. HomeSeer polls the device every 30 seconds. If you want some smart polling you can setup an event to poll the device on demand.

[macromark]

I was somehow hoping there was a clear frontrunner since some of these alternatives have been out awhile.

If by "frontrunner" you're referring to the adoption rate of the protocol, Z-Wave is clearly the winner there... with large companies such as Cooper, Leviton, Schlage, Black & Decker, etc... all signed on and producing product. There are more than 350 Z-Wave certified products today and that continues to grow.

UPB adoption is comparatively more limited with smaller companies leading the charge (PCS, HAI, Simply Automated).

Insteon adoption is even a bit more limited with only one wall switch manufacturer (SmartLabs/Smarthome.com).

If performance and reliability are your primary benchmarks, any of these protocols can work well for you if set up properly. All will be better than X10, in most cases.

[rmasonjr]

With polling set on for a device, when is it polled? If I turn a device ON manually, how long before HS knows that it is ON?
tenholde

Some z-wave devices support instant status so there is no need to poll.