Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Which is better and why?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Which is better and why?

    I am going to start a upgrade from X10 to UPB which I think is the best...but before I jump, I wanted to get the skinny on the different lighting methods supported in HomeSeer and why....For example HomeSeer seems to push the Z-Wave stuff not only on there sales site, but it seems most of the betas since 2.3 are because of various Z-Wave issues...makes me wonder. Also Insteon what does the support for this look like and how reliable are they? UPB seems by my research to be the most reliable but more expensive than the others. Z-Wave must have a lot of issues because HS is really struggling with the support of these devices, and I have not heard much from the Insteon camp...anyone care to voice educated opinions?
    -Larry

    A member of "The HA Pioneer Group", MyWebSite

    Plugins:
    VWS, AB8SS, lrpSpeak, Calendar, Arduino, Harmony, BlueIris, Sprinklers, ZipBackup...

    Hardware:
    Intel NUC8i7BEH1 running Windows 10 Pro headless, HS3 Pro, Plex running on Synology dual High Availability DS-1815+ NAS (24Tb each), Synology Surveillance Station running on DS-416 Slim (8Tb), Samsung SmartThings, Google Home, Alexa, Hubitat Elevation, ZNET, Ubiquiti UniFi Network, Davis Vantage Pro II Weather Station. Whole house speaker system using a couple of AB8SS switches. Vantage Pro II Weather Station, Rain8Net Sprinklers, Hubitat Elevation, Google Home, Alexa, DSC Security System, Ubiquiti UniFi Network.

    #2
    I can only tell you my personal experience. I experimented with them all before going with UPB. Insteon was a short experiment and I dismissed it pretty quickly for technical and quality control problems and smarthome outright lying about it's capabilities. I simply got tired of replacing switches.

    Zwave is far better and seems to work very well, once it's setup and not played with too much. The setup is more complicated than UPB and HomeSeer has tied itself to the protocol for some reason while having lots of troubles getting it right. Weather it's a HomeSeer issue or that manufactures go outside the protocol and cause changes to have to be made weekly, I don't know. I do know you're right almost every update to HomeSeer for the past couple of years is Zwave related and I no longer keep up with the latest and greatest HomeSeer since there is usually nothing in there unless you are a Zwave user.

    For me UPB has just worked, no muss, no fuss, no problems, so I kept it.
    Marty
    ------
    XPpro SP3 /w HS Standard 2.5.0.80, HSTouch Server - 1.0.0.70, HSTouch Client 1.0.0.73 HSTouch Android - 1.0.0.2, HSTouch iPhone - 1.0.0.2
    Playing with HS3 a bit but it's just play at this point.

    Comment


      #3
      I just recently moved to UPB after a zwave light switch failed and took down my entire network with it. I think that is ridiculous especially in a so called "mesh" design. In any case, I wanted to see what UPB was about.

      It, unlike zwave, seems to be pretty much designed around lighting. It is reliable and it's easy to use.

      I'm slowly replacing all of my zwave lighting devices with it. On paper zwave looks great. In reality its pretty buggy. Or maybe it it's just the homeseer software itself. Looking back, I wish I started with UPB.

      Comment


        #4
        +1 for UPB. Use it, love it. It just works.

        Ian
        Plugins:
        BLLogMonitor, BLGarbage, BLBackup, BLOutGoingCalls, BLUps, BLRfid, JvEss, DooMotion, Applied Digital Ocelot, AC RF Processor, UltraMon, PJC AVR 430, UPB, Rain8net, DSC Panel, JRiver Media center, Windows Media Player, SageMediaCenter, SnevlCID, MCSTemperature.

        Comment


          #5
          I'm using UPB as a migration path from Compose (which has been discontinued). The components are fairly expensive, but it works very reliably. What makes it most attractive for me is that I can now add devices where and when I need to.
          Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
          HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

          HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

          Comment


            #6
            I adore my Zwave - have 95 units, 80 of them lighting switches (all lighting switches are Leviton Vizia's).

            I switched from hard wired ALC last year.

            Zwave is reliable, fast and has lots of other devices besides lighting - and, there is a lot of competition so the units are more reasonably priced. I haven't had one misfire and it is FAST (both from HS and manual reporting back to HS)

            Per the zwave website:

            What are the pros and cons of Z-Wave vs. UPB PLC systems? UPB uses the power wiring to transmit its signal so it cannot be used for portable and battery operated devices. UPB products are limited to a few manufacturers, and to date, only lighting products. Z-Wave products are manufactured by over 40 companies and cover products such as Lighting, Window Coverings, Touch Screens, Alarms, Motion Detectors, Universal Remote Controls and support from several Home Control management platforms and software.
            UPB can be very reliable but in most cases requires a bridging device to be placed in the main circuit breaker panel in standard 120/240V split single-phase power systems. Z-Wave on the other hand uses a robust mesh network strategy where every device can act as a repeater ensuring full coverage of large spaces without the need for bridging devices.
            Also, as UPB devices are installed in a network the signal strength on the network decreases with each one due to loading of the power line. With Z-Wave, the more devices installed in the network the stronger the mesh is.

            Comment


              #7
              Most of that is zwave marketing kool-aid though.

              "Z-Wave on the other hand uses a robust mesh network strategy where every device can act as a repeater ensuring full coverage of large spaces without the need for bridging devices."

              Right... I've known at least 3 people (myself included) that had the entire z-wave network fail when a single device malfunctions. The mesh network sounds good on paper and for the most part works but it doesn't work the way it should. I'm not saying it will always act that way when you lose a device but it sure as hell can.


              You will, no doubt, see a lot of UPB and z-wave fanboys here and over on cocoonTech. I like them both, z-wave is great for wireless devices but I'm tired of dealing with it for "must work" lighting. It's just not what it is cracked up to be.

              Comment


                #8
                When HST introduced support for Z-ware there was zero diagnostics avaialble from anyone. HST rolled-their-own with Z-troller to give something. UPB came out-of-the-box via UPStart and the defined protocol by PCS to give the use good diagnositics to help isolate issues. It has been some years now and there are more z-wave devices that suppliers are making available to get your money for which you can gain additional enjoyment. In the same time-frame PCS worked on UPB reliabilty by looking at all the field data available and came up with Gen II. Obviously a different strategy of supporting the professsional vs. consumer mass market focus. Recognize that Gen I UPB reliability was outstanding so work toward Gen II really showed their focus was on supporting the professional installer.

                For the DIY that has time to tinker and can put up with Zwave issues then Zwave provides a nice sandbox to play in. For those that depend upon installing and supporting lighting-related automation as a livelyhood then Zwave has a lot to be desired. For those that like to tinker with the newest gadgets on the street then UPB will leave you wanting.

                In my case I have z-wave that works fine without any computer-asssisted automation. I have UPB with the computer/PIM. My z-wave setup is simple and if it failed I would not know how to diagnose. My UPB network has the tools to identify signal strenth, configuration integrity and overall quality. I also have manufacturers who I can call for support. Who do you call for Zwave support? It is not the chip manufacturer. It is not HST. There really is no equivalent support of UPB available for Zwave.

                Neither one is better, as each is trying to hit a different market. It just depends upon which market you fall into.

                Comment


                  #9
                  What about zigbee devices? Does anyone have experience with those? I am looking to replace insteon switches in an appartment, but don't think upb will be a good choice on the "communal" power lines.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Does HomeSeer even support any Zigbee interfaces?
                    HSPro 3.0.0.458, Z-NET with Z-wave plugin 3.0.1.190, RFXCOM + 2x RFXtrx433E, HSTouch, Squeezebox plugin, iTach IP/WF2IR & GC-100-6 with UltraGCIR, BLDenon, NetcamStudio, Jon00s Webpage builder, Harmony Hub plugin, SCSIP (with FreePBX), Arduino plugin, IFTTT, Pushalot plugin, Device History plugin.
                    Running on Windows 10 (64) virtualized
                    on ESXi (Fujitsu Primergy TX150 S8).
                    WinSeer (for Win10) - TextSeer - FitbitSeer - HSPI_MoskusSample

                    Are you Norwegian (or Scandinavian) and getting started with HomeSeer? Read the "HomeSeer School"!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Michael McSharry View Post
                      When HST introduced support for Z-ware there was zero diagnostics available from anyone. HST rolled-their-own with Z-troller to give something. UPB came out-of-the-box via UPStart and the defined protocol by PCS to give the use good diagnostics to help isolate issues. It has been some years now and there are more z-wave devices that suppliers are making available to get your money for which you can gain additional enjoyment. In the same time-frame PCS worked on UPB reliability by looking at all the field data available and came up with Gen II. Obviously a different strategy of supporting the professional vs. consumer mass market focus. Recognize that Gen I UPB reliability was outstanding so work toward Gen II really showed their focus was on supporting the professional installer.

                      For the DIY that has time to tinker and can put up with Zwave issues then Zwave provides a nice sandbox to play in. For those that depend upon installing and supporting lighting-related automation as a livelihood then Zwave has a lot to be desired. For those that like to tinker with the newest gadgets on the street then UPB will leave you wanting.

                      In my case I have z-wave that works fine without any computer-assisted automation. I have UPB with the computer/PIM. My z-wave setup is simple and if it failed I would not know how to diagnose. My UPB network has the tools to identify signal strength, configuration integrity and overall quality. I also have manufacturers who I can call for support. Who do you call for Zwave support? It is not the chip manufacturer. It is not HST. There really is no equivalent support of UPB available for Zwave.

                      Neither one is better, as each is trying to hit a different market. It just depends upon which market you fall into.
                      Michael,
                      You should check out Z-Seer, it allows you to see the communication links between each node in the network. Z-Seer shows "signal strength, configuration integrity and overall quality" of each node.
                      💁‍♂️ Support & Customer Service 🙋‍♂️ Sales Questions 🛒 Shop HomeSeer Products

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Moskus View Post
                        Does HomeSeer even support any Zigbee interfaces?
                        No.
                        💁‍♂️ Support & Customer Service 🙋‍♂️ Sales Questions 🛒 Shop HomeSeer Products

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Rupp View Post
                          No.
                          It should.
                          HSPro 3.0.0.458, Z-NET with Z-wave plugin 3.0.1.190, RFXCOM + 2x RFXtrx433E, HSTouch, Squeezebox plugin, iTach IP/WF2IR & GC-100-6 with UltraGCIR, BLDenon, NetcamStudio, Jon00s Webpage builder, Harmony Hub plugin, SCSIP (with FreePBX), Arduino plugin, IFTTT, Pushalot plugin, Device History plugin.
                          Running on Windows 10 (64) virtualized
                          on ESXi (Fujitsu Primergy TX150 S8).
                          WinSeer (for Win10) - TextSeer - FitbitSeer - HSPI_MoskusSample

                          Are you Norwegian (or Scandinavian) and getting started with HomeSeer? Read the "HomeSeer School"!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            HS reportedly supports Centralite's JetStream switches, which are zigbee devices, via rs232 interface.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks everyone for the discussion...I understand the differences better now.

                              It sounds like a person could still deploy some sort of hybird system like UPB for reliable lighting and maybe some Z-Wave wired/wireless devices to enhance the automation experience.

                              Thanks again for all the responses, I enjoy reading them all to get a feel for other's experiences.
                              -Larry

                              A member of "The HA Pioneer Group", MyWebSite

                              Plugins:
                              VWS, AB8SS, lrpSpeak, Calendar, Arduino, Harmony, BlueIris, Sprinklers, ZipBackup...

                              Hardware:
                              Intel NUC8i7BEH1 running Windows 10 Pro headless, HS3 Pro, Plex running on Synology dual High Availability DS-1815+ NAS (24Tb each), Synology Surveillance Station running on DS-416 Slim (8Tb), Samsung SmartThings, Google Home, Alexa, Hubitat Elevation, ZNET, Ubiquiti UniFi Network, Davis Vantage Pro II Weather Station. Whole house speaker system using a couple of AB8SS switches. Vantage Pro II Weather Station, Rain8Net Sprinklers, Hubitat Elevation, Google Home, Alexa, DSC Security System, Ubiquiti UniFi Network.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X