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    Advice needed for HS + x10 + IR + temperature sensors + ...

    Hi!

    I'm in the "phase 2" of my domotics project. "Phase 1" was, when I made proper renewal works in my flat last year, installing all x10 receivers (for lights, electrical heaters, extractor fans, servovalves for AC ducts, shutters, etc...), that we have been using manually since (momentary switches). I have also wired the house with CAT5 and speakers cables all along the perimeter of the flat.

    In this "phase 2" I have purchased a low voltage PC with serial ports + touchscreen (not controller, just a Dell multitouch monitor) + HS. This is aimed to do the automatic control of the house.


    My plan was that the control should be receiving x10 signals from:
    • motion sensors (I have wired all locations where I plan to install them)
    • other x10 controllers (I have adapted some switches with x10 transmitters for applications like ambient selection or "leaving home" and so)
    • temperature and humidity sensors all around the house
    • AVs should also be controlled by the PC by means of IR signals
    I was planning to use Ocelot in order to:
    1. interface my PC with x10 devices
    2. receive/send IRs from/to the remote/AV devices (Home Cinema, etc...)
    3. read temperature and humidity with its Bobcat sensors wired with the CAT5 cable in serial
    I would leave for a future phase 3 the voice control, security, iPhone interface, remote web control, etc... and the I/O to my AC system, for which I'm planning to do PC -> serial -> KNX -> Mitsubishi control.

    My problem is that the reseller of Ocelot in Europe is not selling it anymore (they tell me "US supplier is out of business"...?). Besides, Ocelot + Bobcat + IR + ... was quite expensive, and old. I've read about new version Firecat for a while, but doesn't seem to be a short term solution. All in all, I'm looking for alternatives for the 3 requirements above. Any suggestion?


    My comments on what I know so far:
    1. for x10 interfacing, I have made some preliminary tests with the CM15 + HS I have, and I've read it is not fully supported. In my case, I was not able to create an efficient set of macro setting a dim % for each light appliance for different "ambients". It goes sequentially one by one, very slowly, and I could not just send the dim % absolute; I need to first bright to 100% and then dim by x%. Everytime I run the macro, the lights would reach a different dim level... I believe that with other x10 interfaces fully supported by HS(and some more tests... I'm a bit dumb at this), I should get better results... right? Well, this is the first thing I need. What x10 interface shall I use?
    2. what can I use as an alternative to Ocelot for IR? My PC would be receiving commands from Logitech Harmony 1000 and IR remotes, and should be sending IR signals to the different devices
    3. Temperature and humidity (and maybe light, contact, etc...): this is the trickiest point. Bobcats were expensive, but were said to work seamlessly with Ocelot and HS. What alternatives do I have? I've read a bit about xAp and 1wire... seems very complex to me from a language point of view but I may be able to do. For hardware, I need to go deep into interfacing PC and the sensors, but as far as I understood, it is serial, and my CAT5 wiring could do, right? Any suggestion?
    I hope you'll help me finding something robust, easy to set up and fully functional!

    Thanks

    Alex

    #2
    1. For X10 devices, no matter what interface you use, most will go to 100% first and then dim to the correct level. This is simply the way most X10 devices work unless they support direct dim and from past experience this is only the devices that support 2 way communications.
    2. The Ocelot is a good IR device the Global Cache is also a really good setup as well. http://store.homeseer.com/store/Infrared-C47.aspx
    3. I would recommend using the RFXCom hardware for wireless temp and humidity readings. It's expensive up front but once you have the hardware the sensors are affordable.
    💁‍♂️ Support & Customer Service 🙋‍♂️ Sales Questions 🛒 Shop HomeSeer Products

    Comment


      #3
      for x10 interfacing, I have made some preliminary tests with the CM15 + HS I have, and I've read it is not fully supported. In my case, I was not able to create an efficient set of macro setting a dim % for each light appliance for different "ambients". It goes sequentially one by one, very slowly, and I could not just send the dim % absolute; I need to first bright to 100% and then dim by x%. Everytime I run the macro, the lights would reach a different dim level... I believe that with other x10 interfaces fully supported by HS(and some more tests... I'm a bit dumb at this), I should get better results... right? Well, this is the first thing I need. What x10 interface shall I use?
      I have 3 X10 PIM's "online" - one PIM (PSC-05) is connected to an XTB, one is a combo PIM (Insteon serial PLM) and one is the CM-11 (on and off connected to HS). The only one which does scheduled events is the PSC05 with my panel doing the dimming of the mostly combo Insteon/X10 switches via X10.

      what can I use as an alternative to Ocelot for IR? My PC would be receiving commands from Logitech Harmony 1000 and IR remotes, and should be sending IR signals to the different devices
      You can still find Ocelots every once in a while. I may have one somewhere (haven't used it in about 10 years). Personally never interfaced IR to HS. I also use a Logitech XX for my main family room media center. (media center consists of LCD, MM Receiver, MS Media Center (off mostly), Tivo (always on), NMT (always on), DVD/Blue Ray (never used). OTA, Satellite, Cable, NMT and on demand Video (from broadband) used for sources.

      Temperature and humidity (and maybe light, contact, etc...): this is the trickiest point. Bobcats were expensive, but were said to work seamlessly with Ocelot and HS. What alternatives do I have? I've read a bit about xAp and 1wire... seems very complex to me from a language point of view but I may be able to do. For hardware, I need to go deep into interfacing PC and the sensors, but as far as I understood, it is serial, and my CAT5 wiring could do, right? Any suggestion?
      1-Wire and Xap is relatively simple and once configured and set up its pretty solid. In addition to the 1-Wire though I have some HAI temperature/Humidity sensors hooked up. Over the years though 1-Wire has done well (I have 5 1-wire networks set up with temp08's, Temp05, 9097's. I use Cat5e for all of my 1-wire sensors and currently have them in a "Star" configuration (not recommended today). 1-Wire temperature sensors are plentiful and very cheap. Combo temperature/humidity sensors are a bit more. (I use legacy combo temp/humidity and newer combo temp/humidity). I prefer hard wired to wireless related to propagation of the wireless signal (many many factors involved) and having to replace batteries (really prefer not to).
      Last edited by Pete; November 29, 2010, 10:09 AM.
      - Pete

      Auto mator
      Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
      Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
      HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

      HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
      HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

      X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

      Comment


        #4
        The Keene IR anywhere devices (http://www.keene.co.uk/electronic/ke...9/KIRA128.html) look as if they have potential for flexible IR distribution. I haven't tried one though.

        Comment


          #5
          Hey!

          Thanks for the answers!

          x10: I'll make some tests with the ActiveHome soft, that should fully support my CM15, and see how good my system is. If I find an effective set up (using preset and direct dims, and my hard responding to it), I'll try to reproduce it in HS by means of scripts.

          I didn't mention, but (right or wrong) I have bet very hard on x10. I have more than 50 units installed, both receivers for lighting, electrical heaters, extraction fans, servovalves, shutters, etc... and emitters for ambient selection, presence detection, etc...

          So x10 is something I need to properly control. If I wanted to replace my CM15 by a fully supported x10 interface, the situation right now is, as far as I know:
          • TI-103 is not meant for European AC, nor is 1132CU
          • TI-213 is sold out at homeseer store, and I have the impression it is being discontinued (am I right?)
          • CM11 and CM12 are being discontinued for sure, at least in Europe
          • CTX35 seems to be the most suitable interface. Is it fully supported by HS? It's 4 times the price of other x10 interfaces. What's the real advantage of it?
          So if any European user can bring some light to this, I'll be grateful! I know this has been longly discussed in other threads, but I'd like to say that in Europe x10 seems to have a long way to walk before dying and by not fully supporting interfaces available in Europe, in my modest opinion, HS may lose some punch.

          I'll focus on this first, and then try and solve the sensoring thing.

          I'd rather avoid RFs and battery-based sensors, so I'll look a bit deeper into the 1-wire. Is Temp-08 + sensors connected in serial using my pre-wired CAT5 + RS-232 to my PC + HS plug-in all I need in order to have HS monitoring temperatures and humidities around the house? I only found star configuration for such systems described. But again, this will come only after I solve the x10.

          Thanks for your advice!

          Comment


            #6
            Alex,

            Check out the following for your X10 "stuff". I've been using the first generation of the amplifier and its worked well for me.

            http://jvde.us/

            Relating to the 1-Wire topology; I initially used Cat5E with one cable per sensor going to a small patch panel wired in the "star configuration" versus a "bus configuration". Looking at mine over the years with 4 1-wire setups its really kind of a mixture of the two types of topologies.

            Have a quick read here relating to 1-Wire

            http://www.midondesign.com/Documents...GuideOO103.pdf
            - Pete

            Auto mator
            Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
            Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
            HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

            HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
            HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

            X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

            Comment


              #7
              CM11 and CM12 are being discontinued for sure, at least in Europe
              First i've heard (not that i'm not shocked if it is the case) of this, but at least one of the main UK HA sites has more than 100 units in stock of the CM12 - I know its simplistic but if you buy a couple of these they should last you a good while indeed, at least for another 10 years before we all have bionic implants in our brain to control our HA anyway.

              Comment


                #8
                Alex,

                What modules do you use for X10 dimming? If you use LD11 modules then they definitely support direct dimming via Homeseer.

                A number of people here on the board who live in Europe use the TI213 or TI223 which is far superior than the CM11/12/15. The X10 output is much stronger and very reliable. They are not discontinued, just not kept in stock by HST.

                I used to get through a CM11/12 every 2 years so cannot recommend them.
                Jon

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hey!

                  Maybe there is some hope for my x10 investment, then...

                  Pete, the stuff you recommend seem to be only for US. I'll look deeper on it, however. The guide you have linked me to is brilliant! I think the 1wire Bus Network is what I need, at a first glance.

                  Sorry about the CM11 and CM12: I said they were discontinued for sure when I had no base for it. Just that CM15 and CM19 are now being sold in most of the webshops I have visited so far. I apologise! In any case, I've just got the feeling these are not the high-end interfaces I'm looking for... but I may be wrong! jon00 doesn't seem to recommend them for the long term.

                  The receivers I have all around my house are LW12 for the lights, AW12 for appliances like heater and fans, and SW12 for shutters and HVAC ducts' opening/closing device (how do you call this in English?). Do you know whether you can do direct dim with these? Then the emitters are of all different sorts, depending on what they are aimed to do.

                  I very recently installed HS in my new server and have almost not done any proper test on my system. Any guidance will be of much help!

                  Thanks a lot again

                  Alex

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think the LW12 responds to extended X10 commands. In Homeseer set the device type as Leviton 6381 for this module. Then try various dimming values so see if it dims directly to the correct value.
                    Jon

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hey guys!

                      I have not been able to work on this for some time. The lighting is solved. As suggested by Jon, I defined the LW12 as Leviton and now I can set up events that work fine with direct dimming. It works ok from the "Status" window, when giving a direct dimming value, as well as in the "Events" window, when I define in a macro a "Dim Absolute" value. If I run the macro several times, it keeps the right values.

                      Before (when the LW12 were defined as a standard lamp module), every time I ran the macro it was dimming relative, so starting at 100 and applying twice a 50% "absolute dimming", it went every time half the current intensity.

                      So this is now fine. I am struggling with the shutters (blinds), for which I use SW12. I am only able to use them as on/off when defining them as Leviton 6381. Ideally, I would like to have them selectable at values between 0 and 100%. Same happens with the HVAC ducts opening/closing devices.

                      Any idea with this?

                      Thanks!

                      Alex

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I have no experience of the SW12. I would just try different device types in HS to see if one works. You cannot do any damage by trying.
                        Jon

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi Jon!

                          I've done some preliminary trials and the results are not exactly as expected. I would need to do some more. In any case, the manual says:

                          , , BRIGHT andDIM.

                          fully opens the blind and fully closes it. A suitable over travel depending on window size is added to the drive time to ensure that the end stops are reached before the unit switches its own relays off.

                          BRIGHT
                          and DIM can be used to set the blind to any position. The action is identical to that which occurs when the UP and DOWN keys are pressed. Bright is equivalent to UP and DIM is equivalent to DOWN.


                          commands enables the unit to remotely set the blind to any desired position using a suitable controller and fully automate the blinds in the house, apartment or office. Extended code messages can be sent to the SW12 using a CM15PRO Computer Interface for example.


                          Doesn't this mean that they should react just like the LW12 that I am able to correctly control by defining them as Leviton? Only difference is that SW12 accept extended code type 0, and in the LW12 I saw a type 3. What does that mean? Does it bring any info on how I need to define them in order to respond to direct "dimming" (position selection)?

                          I'll try to get it work with ActiveHome Pro so at least I'll be sure that it is not a problem from the module. Any comment meanwhile will be more than welcome!

                          Thanks

                          Alex

                          Comment


                            #14
                            As you say, I think you need to make sure the SW12 is working correctly before you go any further with this.
                            Jon

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