Adding Another Signal Booster Makes it Worse!?

[jimwayda]

I am having X10 problems that I can trace to a new HD wall-mounted TV that I had professionally installed several months ago. I forgot to install a filter on the AC Socket that the TV connects to. It is very difficult to take the TV off the wall to plug a filter into the outlet. It just can't be done for a number of reasons, so please don't suggest it as a solution. I have a dryer plug amplified phase coupler and two of the SignalLinc I2C Boosters that plug into the 120V outlets. I also have a X10 Signal Meter. It is interesting that one SignalLinc improves the performance of the X10 network, but installing another SignalLinc causes more problems!! This is really strange - I would think that another SignalLinc would improve ths issues that I'm experiencing. Do you guys have any suggestions? I have installed X10 filters on every electronic device in my home except the aforementioned TV. I have checked signal strength and it is very low near the circuit where the TV is connected and in other rooms, however, if I install a SignalLinc in that room and it solves the problem, but causes problems in other rooms. I am a EE so I understand signal issues, but I don't have much experience with the intricacies of X10. Thanks.

-jim

[Rupp]

The addition of the second repeater is most likely repeating the noise that the TV is injecting. Apart from a filter I have no idea other than maybe switching to Z-Wave which doesn't suffer from the PLC noise.

[jimwayda]

Can you tell me where to purchase Z-Wave? Do they have a lot of modules like X10 (switch dimmers, appliance modules, lamp modules, etc)?

The addition of the second repeater is most likely repeating the noise that the TV is injecting. Apart from a filter I have no idea other than maybe switching to Z-Wave which doesn't suffer from the PLC noise.

[Uncle Michael]

Check out the HS store.

BTW, converting everything to Z-wave will be a lot more expensive than adding a filter to the TV, even if it entails installing a modified outlet box to gain the space required. If you are sure the TV is the only culprit (Does the problem disappear if you turn off the circuit the TV is on?) I'd opt to fix it. On the other hand, if you are having recurring problems with X10, then changing to a different technology may be the best bet. I'd suggest either UPB or Z-wave.

[Rupp]

Can you tell me where to purchase Z-Wave? Do they have a lot of modules like X10 (switch dimmers, appliance modules, lamp modules, etc)?

Here:
http://store.homeseer.com/
and yes they have a lot of different types of devices including locks, temp sensors, etc.

[jimwayda]

Yes, the problem disappears if I turn-off the circuit that has the TV. On the other hand, I fight another X10 problem every time we get a new electronic device or a laptop charger gets plugged-in without an X10 filter. The switching power supplies in almost all electronic equipment now-a-days attenuates the X10 signal on the power line. They actually have a capacitor across the power line in order to comply with FCC emission standards. I am getting tired of fighting the X10 battles... In the future more and more equipment will have switching power supplied and the problem will be compounded. I may just have to live with the problem for now especially if Zwave is very expensive. Why can't someone create a simple solution that solves all of the problems? What about Insteon, or does it have the same set of problems as X10?

Regards,
-jim

Check out the HS store.

BTW, converting everything to Z-wave will be a lot more expensive than adding a filter to the TV, even if it entails installing a modified outlet box to gain the space required. If you are sure the TV is the only culprit (Does the problem disappear if you turn off the circuit the TV is on?) I'd opt to fix it. On the other hand, if you are having recurring problems with X10, then changing to a different technology may be the best bet. I'd suggest either UPB or Z-wave.

[Uncle Michael]

Why can't someone create a simple solution that solves all of the problems? What about Insteon, or does it have the same set of problems as X10?

I highly recommend the XTB-IIR. Since installing it my signal strength problems have virtually disappeared.

As far as Insteon goes, do some reading on this board. It has not been a solution for many of the people who have tried it and it does share many of the same issues as conventional X10.

[tenholde]

Any ideal what the XTB-IIR would do in a mixed UPB and X10 environment?

tenholde

[Uncle Michael]

I have both X10 and UPB. The XTB has no effect on UPB operation as far as I can tell.

[jimwayda]

I am looking for something that is a "magic bullet" that will resolve my X10 problems, especially if I have to install the unit in the breaker panel. I currently have a dryer plug coupler-amplifier and it helps but doesn't really do the job. If it install the XTB-11R, will I still need the filters and the additional boosters that I am currently using?

Regards,
-jim

I highly recommend the XTB-IIR. Since installing it my signal strength problems have virtually disappeared.

As far as Insteon goes, do some reading on this board. It has not been a solution for many of the people who have tried it and it does share many of the same issues as conventional X10.

[Uncle Michael]

I am looking for something that is a "magic bullet" that will resolve my X10 problems, especially if I have to install the unit in the breaker panel. . . . will I still need the filters and the additional boosters that I am currently using?

Magic bullets are in extremely short supply. You are more likely to find a series of material improvements that together yield substantially improved performance.

Although neater, it is not absolutely essential to attache the XTB-IIR directly into the breaker panel. I have mine plugged into two outlets - one on each leg. Jeff can help you understand how that works.

Only experiment will answer your last question. I would expect that at least some of the filters will be unnecessary. Additional boosters will almost certainly be unnecessary. In fact, they may present a problem if you leave them in your system.

[jimwayda]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I am currently having a problem with a SmartHome SwitchLinc Dimmer Switch. The problem is that I can turn-on the switch via X10, but I can't turn-off the switch - I must manually turn it off. I also cannot use the "dim" function of HomeSeer to control the brightness. Is this type indicative of a X10 signal problem, or does this seem like some type of failure of the circuitry within the switch? Has anyone encountered a SwitchLinc that can be turned-on but not turned-off via X10?

Thanks,

-jim

[mterry63]

TV Problem:

This is like talking to my wife (no offense intended) - you know what the problem is (TV power supply is an X-10 signal sucker), you know what the solution is (add an X-10 filter to the TV power supply). I'm assuming you don't want to implement the real solution due to effort/cost, but you didn't limit the alternatives to less effort/cost. Bite the bullet and implement the real solution, you'll be happier in the end. Chalk it up to 'lessons learned'.

SwitchLinc Problem:

This kind of control problem is frequently due to the load itself; some bulbs don't like X-10 signals for example. Try swapping out the load with a 'known good'.

FWIW, after I broke down and installed filters on every TV/PC in the house years ago I never have X-10 signal strength issues, and rarely have reliability issues. I'd say it's at least 95% reliable or better.

[drozwood90]

I have both X10 and UPB. The XTB has no effect on UPB operation as far as I can tell.

I have used and do use the XTB and a TI103 (from the HS Store). I bought the Ti103 to replace the XTB, as the CM### (was it an 11A?), gets a bit funky after a month+ of continuous use (had to manually unplug and replug it in). The Ti103 doesn't seem to suffer from this problem.

No issues on any UPB...and as Uncle Michael stated, my X10 problems are virtually nil now. In fact, I am currently running with no filters in the house. As a point of reference I needed 3 of them in the past.

--Dan

[drozwood90]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I am currently having a problem with a SmartHome SwitchLinc Dimmer Switch. The problem is that I can turn-on the switch via X10, but I can't turn-off the switch - I must manually turn it off. I also cannot use the "dim" function of HomeSeer to control the brightness. Is this type indicative of a X10 signal problem, or does this seem like some type of failure of the circuitry within the switch? Has anyone encountered a SwitchLinc that can be turned-on but not turned-off via X10?

Thanks,

-jim

Sounds like whatever you are powering with the switch is causing line noise. I had this problem. I had to put an inline filter "after" the switch, before the load in order to get this to work.

When I got to that point, and having to reset my X10 repeater / coupler (XTB didn't have a coupler / repeater at the time) all the time...I switched over to UPB. Best thing I ever did. I can't speak for Z-Wave (as I only have 4 Z-Wave things...two locks and two thermostats), but after I went to UPB, it was "MY" magic bullet. All my problems went away. And for the 3 X10 powerline things I still control, with the Ti103 and XTB, I have enough signal strength to power through anything (or so it seems). It also helps that since I have so FEW things, I put them all on the same phase as the power line adapter. I do couple the X10 to the opposite phase, but at the moment, I don't need the signal there.

--Dan