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Why is UPB still so expensive?

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    #1

    Why is UPB still so expensive?

    X10 is old and cheep...insteon is new but the price is low which has driven usage...Zwave is cheep, as are many of the others...

    Making the UPB decision is expensive....

    I need to re-fit a flakey x10 house I outfitted 10 years ago... I know thar UPB will just work... I installed a pim and a plugin module for test...lots of signal in places x10 never even dreamed about....

    But at $70 per location...it hurts...

    Why so expensive??

    Even my "installer" price is high...I can normally beat it with sales or watching ebay...
    Tags: None
    #2
    UPB is not expensive in relative terms.

    What you see as list price, purchased price and wholesale price are totally different numbers. (even on Ebay)

    Just a couple of informational wikis

    UPB Wiki

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_powerline_bus

    Z-Wave Wiki

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-Wave
    - Pete

    Auto mator
    Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
    Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
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    HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
    HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11
    X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

    Comment

      #3
      I agree with Pete here. Yes UPB can be expensive but it's a relative cost, depending on what you want and how stable and trouble free you want the system to be. I've been through the mill with lighting protocols, X10, Insteon, Zwave and UPB. Since switching to UPB more than a couple of years ago I no longer think about or putz around with getting my lighting control to be stable, it just is and I can move on to working on other automation projects, to me that's priceless.

      Other protocols can be made more or less stable as others on this board can attest to, it just takes time, effort and sometimes lots of filters. For me it was just a matter of how much I wanted to play with it. Did i want to be tracking down problems every time someone plugged in something new, did I want to have endless loops of optimizing wireless networks, etc, etc. It all depends on what you want to spend your time doing. For me it was worth the extra just for peace of mind.

      One of the nice things is you can install switches as funds become available. You do not need to get mesh or network going. So as funds become available you add a switch or two. The switches themselves don't care if you have 1 or 50 in the house, they work just as well with 1 as they do with 50.
      Marty
      ------
      XPpro SP3 /w HS Standard 2.5.0.80, HSTouch Server - 1.0.0.70, HSTouch Client 1.0.0.73 HSTouch Android - 1.0.0.2, HSTouch iPhone - 1.0.0.2
      Playing with HS3 a bit but it's just play at this point.

      Comment

        #4
        Bought a pulseworx starter kit a couple of months ago and have been very impressed. (pim, phase bridge, and 5 modules)

        At the same time, bought a similar zwave setup with lower end GE modules for lighting contol. Learned quickly the cheaper zwave modules are not 2 way. It seems similarly capable modules would cost as much (or more) as equivalent UPB modules.

        Aside from some possible quality assurance issues on the pulsewox modules, I have been far happier with the performance and capabilities of the UPB solution. I have had many issues with homeseer and zwave (especially with my TZ43 thermostat). UPB and the homeseer plug-in have just worked. As money permits, I plan to replace all x10 and zwave light control with UPB. Just my experience. Yours may vary.

        -sphiend

        Comment

          #5
          I have a mix of PCS, SA and HAI UPB switches and modules. Recently swapped an SA phase coupler with a PCS Phase coupler and purchased 1000 watt PCS switches for installation - not done yet. (2nd floor stalling right now). Using three PIM's; one on the HAI OPII, HSPro and a floater. Taking my time. The rest of the house is still on Insteon/X10 and not having any issues with it. My Omnistat2 thermostat is wired directly to my HAI OPII panel. I can control it via HS/HAI panel but still run it independantly and just monitor it.
          - Pete

          Auto mator
          Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
          Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
          HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
          HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
          HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11
          X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

          Comment

            #6
            I guess my question is...where do I buy them cheep?

            My Price as an installer buying wholesale from my local alarm supply house is MORE than I buy them for from AutomatedOutlet...

            I am willing to buy a number of them, and I don't need retail level support, so why can't I find them less expensive??

            Comment

              #7
              The last UPB device I bought was an HAI 8 button keypad about a week ago. I ended up finding the best price on it at hometech.com, less than than my normal distributor at dealer prices.

              Prices vary from vendor to vendor and timing seems to play a role in it sometimes. I've gotten good prices Automated Outlet, WebMounian, my own distributor and even ebay on occasion. The all seem to always be switching places as to who's the most reasonable.

              To save you can't be in a rush. Murphy says when you need that emergency switch replacement NO-ONE will be having a sale or discounting anything and you'll be paying top dollar!
              Marty
              ------
              XPpro SP3 /w HS Standard 2.5.0.80, HSTouch Server - 1.0.0.70, HSTouch Client 1.0.0.73 HSTouch Android - 1.0.0.2, HSTouch iPhone - 1.0.0.2
              Playing with HS3 a bit but it's just play at this point.

              Comment

                #8
                I agree with everyone on the UPB - they just work.

                Watch eBay - I believe I was able to purchase most of my modules between $35 & $50 (plug in and wired switches). Keep an open search running for UPB as a keyword.

                I found the place that I purchased a number of them from. I sent him an e-mail to see if he is still carrying them and pricing them aggressively. If he is I will report back.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by rsisson View Post
                  I need to re-fit a flakey x10 house I outfitted 10 years ago... I know thar UPB will just work... I installed a pim and a plugin module for test...lots of signal in places x10 never even dreamed about....
                  You answered your own question. Truthfully, the economies of scale are not yet there to make a well made, reliable and heavy R&D'd type of product cheap. Just the nature of the HA beast.

                  Comment

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