My generator and home automation experience

[drozwood90]

UM,

Also, since I know you are using UPB (at least now), have you run the switches with the generator running?

--Dan

[nightwalker]

This is also a road I'm going to have to go down this year. Up until the last year or two I've had power outages but they've been few and short lived and I didn't see the benefit of bothering with a generator. In the last year we've had 3 outages that have lasted more than a day and one was 3 days. I can't seem to get much of an answer out of the electric company for the outages. After talking to some employees I've come to the conclusion that they have let their physical plant get well beyond where it should be and as a result the local grid seems especially prone to breakdowns for even minor storms, let alone something major.

I didn't really want to go whole hog on this but I am going to have to at least come up with something to use as a backup even if it's just the fridge, heat, and a couple of lighting circuits. I'm thinking that for me the road that skozin has taken, or something similar will probably work for me, unless outages continue to get longer and longer and I'm forced to go to something like a whole house model.

[TeleFragger]

so how do you guys rate what you need?
i have the brultech 1240's setup.. and if memory serves me correct.. with all computers on, basement lights, normal operating day with tv, receiver, ha equipment.. AC.. i dont reember going over 6000 watts... now i know you dont want to run close to what you use for surge reasons and if you need that buffer so the generator will not work as hard...

Im now working for a company where we get a large bonus paid out in march... but since i started half year in mine wont be great.. but the next march... my bonus would fully fund a full house model.. now i look at it as we have not lost power often or much more than 2hrs.. this storm hit us and took us out for only 48hrs.... but im thinking a full house unit would also raise the value of the house.. in addition create concerns with potential buyers on why you have it....


on the transfer switch... so for roughly $300 .... so theoretically i could get a transfer switch, hook it up at the panel, tap in the NECESSARY items.. then use my portable 5000w generator to fire those circuits up... that would allow me to review a circuit of some lighting, fridge, garage freezer, sump pump and a few other things....

my brother is an electrician, my cousing works for an electric company as a linesman and my bro in law owns his own electric company that installs stadium lighting, traffic lights and stuff.. so i can get someone to do it safely and free (beer and food help and yes AFTER the work is done...)


*********** edited
ok so a quick google search... yup i will be doing this.. i know you can get it cheaper.. but home depot has it.. and im thinking this one..
i just feel it would make life so much easier than having to run electrical cords, figuring out what to hookup, etc.. when you can do all that on a nice day and leave the missery to a lessened effect...
im definitely going with either

prewired.. but limited to 10 circuits....
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...atalogId=10053

or taking time and needing more parts...
http://www.amazon.com/GenTran-301060.../dp/B0000CCXUL

WAF isnt gonna be happy.. hard decision is that battery backup sump now will give peace to the mind.. but one of these switches means you are home but convenient to hookup and restore power...

[Uncle Michael]

What kind of Generator did you get? Have you looked at the output with a scope?
Also, since I know you are using UPB (at least now), have you run the switches with the generator running?

Dan,
The generator is a Generac. I haven't looked at the output waveform. The voltage is within power company limits, and actually higher than what they normally deliver.
Both X10 and UPB work well. The only problem I have is that my UPB phase coupler is on breakers in my main panel box that is switched out by the transfer switch, so only the switches on the same phase as my PIM respond to external signals.

[Uncle Michael]

so how do you guys rate what you need?
i have the brultech 1240's setup.. and if memory serves me correct.. with all computers on, basement lights, normal operating day with tv, receiver, ha equipment.. AC.. i dont reember going over 6000 watts...

That is consistent with what I see. Normally the house uses ~1 KW when idle, 2-3 occupied during the day, 3-5 at night when we are up, depending on what is on.

If the oven is on, then total consumption can go up to 6-7 KW, again depending on what else is on.
AC is the biggest draw. It adds 4-6 KW when the compressor is running.

As far as the value of a whole house unit and auto transfer switch, it really depends on how frequent and how long outages are in your area and how much you value the convenience of having the power come back on without intervention. Keep in mind, there is annual maintenance and periodic battery replacement (every 3-4 years). And, it is one more thing that can fail, and of course if it does, you will discover the problem just when you need it!

[prsmith777]

After suffering through enough hurricanes here in Louisiana I invested in a Generac 30KW generator which covers the whole house and then some. The local distributor in town had one that was ordered and the customer backed out of, so I got it for the cost of a 20KW unit. I exercise the unit once a week for 15 minutes and its been in two years now and we havent had another hurricane since so I havent had the chance to really use it! Dont know if I want to wish for that though.

Since I do alot of work from home, I was able to deduct most of the cost of the generator.

[Uncle Michael]

. . . its been in two years now and we havent had another hurricane since . . .

Seems like your whole community should contribute, given the results.

[Olbrit]

I get outages each year, but I only need the basics running then e.g. fridges, freezer, main cfl lights, alarm, bedroom clocks, cellphone chargers, sump pump - so I installed a manual transfer switch kit: http://www.steadypower.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=1548
and connected it via a 240v/20A cable to a voltage regulated, electric start, Generac 4000EXL gas generator. (I'd recommend getting an Electrician's advice about grounding the genny chassis and if the neutral should be bonded to ground at the genny, or floating).
My sensitive electronics in the house are powered via a SmartUPS that plugs into one of the genny-powered outlets, so they get a fairly clean sine wave.
It just ran 42 hours non-stop and used about 4 gallons of gas every 14 hours, so I didn't have to babysit it overnight, or while I was at work. Did the trick for me.
(I would recommend securely chaining it to something suitable as some folks are getting their genny's stolen...)

[Pete]

Great thread!

The Generac 30KW looks like the same one sitting in front of the Local Menards.

[rmasonjr]

so how do you guys rate what you need?
i have the brultech 1240's setup.. and if memory serves me correct.. with all computers on, basement lights, normal operating day with tv, receiver, ha equipment.. AC.. i dont reember going over 6000 watts... now i know you dont want to run close to what you use for surge reasons and if you need that buffer so the generator will not work as hard...

My local electric company put a device in my meter box for about 5d then gave me recommendations. The device monitored our regular household usage including spikes of HVAC units turning on. Check with your local utility - mine provided this service for free.

I have the CurrentCost but it polls every 9 seconds or so. I might be missing some spikes that this other unit from my utility picked up.

[stevea]

I agree Pete - This is really an excellent thread. We have lots of smart people on this board, and I for one appreciate hearing the voices of experience on this stuff.

We seldom have any issues with power, so it is a little hard for me to convince myself to do anything. When we do take a hit, it is generally due to lightning during a thunderstorm, and then it comes back quickly. A hit this summer a hundred yards from the house did wipe out my Way2Call and the PS on one desktop, even though both were behind a UPS.

Unlike those of you in Hurricane paths, my main concern is the winter. Our only source of heat is the forced air furnace, and if the power goes out when it is -10F I don't want to have to move into a hotel. I don't know that I care enough to try and keep my automation stuff up, nor most of the lights. Unfortunately I don't have any power monitoring stuff, so I'm not exactly sure what my KW needs are. It sounds like one of the smaller generators should do for me. For a couple of fridges, a furnace, and the overhead hallway lights I'm guessing something 4KW would be more than enough, right?

Steve

[stevea]

My local electric company put a device in my meter box for about 5d then gave me recommendations. The device monitored our regular household usage including spikes of HVAC units turning on. Check with your local utility - mine provided this service for free.

Excellent! I'll try that.

Steve

[rmasonjr]

so how do you guys rate what you need?
i have the brultech 1240's setup.. and if memory serves me correct.. with all computers on, basement lights, normal operating day with tv, receiver, ha equipment.. AC.. i dont reember going over 6000 watts... now i know you dont want to run close to what you use for surge reasons and if you need that buffer so the generator will not work as hard...

My local electric company put a device in my meter box for about 5d then gave me recommendations. The device monitored our regular household usage including spikes of HVAC units turning on. Check with your local utility - mine provided this service for free.

I have the CurrentCost but it polls every 9 seconds or so. I might be missing some spikes that this other unit from my utility picked up.

[Uncle Michael]

My local electric company put a device in my meter box for about 5d then gave me recommendations. The device monitored our regular household usage including spikes of HVAC units turning on. Check with your local utility - mine provided this service for free.

I have the CurrentCost but it polls every 9 seconds or so. I might be missing some spikes that this other unit from my utility picked up.

That's a great idea. I wish I'd had that kind of information when I was selecting mine. Of course, during that time you have to be sure to run the heaviest electricity users you expect to power with the generator.

I now have a Brultech monitor and it can be set to register a change in draw, so even if a spike occurs between polling cycles it is supposed to pick it up. Looking at my refrigerators channel, that appears to be the case, but I have no way to know how accurate it is.

In any case, I'd definitely recommend that anyone considering a generator install an energy monitor and follow actual usage for a while to help gauge the size unit needed to do the job.

[drozwood90]

Good thought Mike!

--Dan