My generator and home automation experience

[pbibm]

1) Correct, the power-line only Insteon devices all worked fine
2) Nothing was damaged after running the generator

To be fair, if running on the generator damages the switches, then the power from the generator must be really dirty...

Yep, I guess deep down that's what's important to know for those shopping for a generator. Discuss you HA habit with the generator vendor and look for a good, knowledgable answer on that.

[TeleFragger]

1) Correct, the power-line only Insteon devices all worked fine
2) Nothing was damaged after running the generator

To be fair, if running on the generator damages the switches, then the power from the generator must be really dirty...

my portable generator i bought during the hurricane wouldnt run a apc-1000 ups... guessing dirty signal.....

[gdoerr56]

my portable generator i bought during the hurricane wouldnt run a apc-1000 ups... guessing dirty signal.....

Larger generators have a much lower source impedance than the smaller units and typically have better transient performance as well. At the end of the day utility power is provided by generators operating on the same principles as our residential units just scaled up considerably.

I have a APC 2200 KVA UPS in my home to protect the computers and network gear. That seems to work fine on the generator. You might want to look at the setup manual for your UPS and see if you can lower the trip voltage or frequency tolerance. You might have a simple case of out-of-spec input voltage...

Good luck!

[Pete]

My only personal experience with what a generator can do; surgewise/dirty power was at a new construction job site where numerous Cisco switches were being installed and tested.

In a "rush" to test and without UPS's the switches were tested and about 4 out of 5 ceased to function. Maybe tested just to meet a time frame?

[Guest]

Sorry to dig up an old thread here but I thought I'd share my experience. I have a few Insteon keypads and a Generac genearator. During a test of the genearator I found that the Insteon switches functioned locally but acted a bit strange - small delay to turn on/off, light flickering while ramping up. Communication failed entirely even though these are dual band devices. I was rather surprised that the RF portion of the communication would also fail so I wrote an email to the Smarthome folks and here is what I learned:

Glenn Chubak ,
Thank you for contacting Smarthome.
Unfortunately, since Insteon is a powerline base communicating technology, the system will more than likely not work on your generator. For Insteon to work on a generator or inverter, the generator must be a pure sine wave generator to transmit its signal. If it is not you will see adverse behavior by Insteon devices. The RF is not working because the power the generator is supplying is disrupting the circuitry in the Insteon devices.
Please do not hesitate to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Matt Primous
Customer Solutions Center
www.Smarthome.com

I should also mention that my Homeseer computer is an older netbook. The internal battery carries it through the power outage and the power supply is perfectly happy on the generator power.

[Uncle Michael]

That's surprising. I haven't had any problems with my X10 (or UPB) switches when my generator is running.

[Madcodger]

Exactly what I'm seeing

Yep, that's exactly what I'm seeing - they don't reliably communicate. Also, many often flicker and blink like a psychedelic amusement ride for several seconds, although sometimes they stabilize. Some also lose their programming and at least one died. Would be very interested to know what Z-wave users found during Sandy. Thanks, Uncle Michael, for report on UPB and X10.

Also, interesting to note that most oher electronics were fine (tv, Fios boxes, computers, VOIP phones, printers, etc). Other than Insteon, only two cheapo UPS devices had trouble with generator (will ditch them, but too much invested in Insteon to do that).

[drozwood90]

UM,

Since I think our houses are pretty similar in "technology", what Generator do you have/use?

Do you run your whole house? Are there sections of the house that you "turn off" when you are on a generator?

Thanks!

--Dan

[Uncle Michael]

Dan,
I do not power everything, but it's not really zoned. Mostly, I don't try to run high current devices like the electric stove and oven or the AC compressor off the generator. Some other circuits are not included because the subpanel that's behind the transfer switch doesn't have as many slots as would be necessary. That's mostly because I didn't want to go to the trouble of doing extensive rewiring of the old main panel - and didn't have enough foresight to install a bigger subpanel. So I had to make some choices for what would not have power. It turns out to be rooms we seldom use or half the outlets in an area, things like that.

[Pete]

With the numerous Kw of generators that I have seen; I figured for my home it would be around 14-16Kw to keep everything going (WAF wise). I guess the best way is just to add up the amperage and use that as a rule of thumb eh guys? Here because of the poor QOS (last two years mostly) I was thinking in terms of maybe conditioning the power from a whole house UPS. Commercially I've done that with smaller offices using a combo whole office UPS backed up by a generator. Cost wise its about the same price for the whole house UPS as the generator (maybe a bit cheaper).

[Uncle Michael]

Pete,
If I were doing it today I'd get an electricity monitor and put a CT on my main power line, then just keep track of total usage for a while. After getting the data, I'd add in known power hogs that didn't get included (e.g. AC compressor if baseline run in cool weather). Adding a safety margin should get you really close to the size you need. Given your tendency to be thorough, I'm surprised you haven't already done that.

For my house, now that I can actually measure usage, it appears that the 12KW generator I have could power everything, but I'd probably choose a 16 just to be sure.

[Pete]

Thanks Mike.

[Guest]

I went cheap on the Genearator and just got the 7Kw Core Power unit. I've put in a transfer panel and moved a bunch of circuits over to it. I've skipped a few rooms in the basement, most of the counter top plugs in the kitchen, the electric ovens, dishwashers and the A/C. Where we live A/C isn't really that necessary. We use all CFL lighting so I figure a 1000 watts of lights goes a long way. The dryer and cooktop are gas so no problem there. Initial tests suggest that we can run everything that is connected quite comfortably on the 7Kw unit. An acceptable compromise. At least we won't freeze to death if the power goes out in the winter.

[rmasonjr]

I went cheap on the Genearator and just got the 7Kw Core Power unit. I've put in a transfer panel and moved a bunch of circuits over to it. I've skipped a few rooms in the basement, most of the counter top plugs in the kitchen, the electric ovens, dishwashers and the A/C. Where we live A/C isn't really that necessary. We use all CFL lighting so I figure a 1000 watts of lights goes a long way. The dryer and cooktop are gas so no problem there. Initial tests suggest that we can run everything that is connected quite comfortably on the 7Kw unit. An acceptable compromise. At least we won't freeze to death if the power goes out in the winter.

Same here. I splurged on a high-end transfer panel and use my 6250w generator plugged into the panel. I have everything color-coded on the inside and outside breakers for what can be running on generator. I have a lot of future capacity with this setup, meaning, I have everything I need for a whole-house propane generator in the future.

[drozwood90]

Interesting that no one has mentioned the APCC UTS.

This is a computerized Automatic Transfer switch, which can handle load shedding based on priorities you configure. For instance, you turn on the Microwave, it might dump the Fridge and laptop. Then when the microwave is done, it reapplies power.

--Dan