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    Problem with XPS3 turning on, but not turning off?

    Now that I have your attention... That sounds like a typical newbie question, where you can send an X10 command to an XPS3 to turn it on, but it can't be remotely turned back off again.

    No, this one is different...

    Cut to the chase, if I connect line and neutral but not load, I can tap the XPS3's button and locally control it. LED on the XPS3 turns on with the "click" and turns off with the "click".

    But when I connect the load... Tap the button, and that's it. The XPS3 turns on, but the LED doesn't illuminate, and no further taps of the button have any effect. It also doesn't respond to X10 commands, either.

    The load in question? A chandelier with three incandescent light bulbs...

    Anyone have any thoughts? I'm at a loss...

    Thanks,
    Chris

    #2
    Not enough information for this pedestrian brain. First thoughts: try to isolate the problem to the load or the switch.

    Have you tried the switch with a different load? The load with a different (X10) switch?
    Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
    HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

    HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

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      #3
      Chris

      Are you 100% sure that hot and neutral are connected right? This includes checking to make sure that:
      1. You hooked the switch up right - I'm sure you did, but you are seeing a symptom of this
      2. That the location isn't wired backwards.. Hot is supplying Neutral and Neutral is supplying Hot. I have a tester and have found circuits in my house that are backwards. Usually its an outlet or switch that someone replaced themselves and didn't know which was which and got them backwards, everything else downstream is then reversed.

      Paul
      Paul

      Comment


        #4
        Michael: I did try two different XPS3's, and the behavior was the same with both. When I took the XPS3's out of their boxes, they were in the "off" position. Connected them to line, neutral, and load, turned on the breaker, tapped the rocker switch, and the switch turned on. And, that's all she wrote... There's no way to turn them back off again without cutting out the breaker.

        I haven't tried these two XPS3's on other circuits yet, but I do have a 3-way lighting circuit that I need to replace later this week. I wouldn't expect that a random sampling of two XPS3's are bad, though, so I don't expect to encounter this problem with that circuit.

        When I disconnect the load, the switch acts correctly. Tap the rocker and it goes "click" with the XPS3's red LED turning on. Tap the rocker again and it goes "click" with the LED turning off.

        Paul: I swapped out a standard, normal, Leviton switch for the XPS3, and there were only two wires in the box when I started. I had to fish a neutral, which I know ties to the bus bar, so I know it's really neutral. I rung out 120 on one wire against the neutral line and identified that as the "line", and the other wire was logically "load".

        Any further thoughts? I've never seen this behavior with an XPS3 before.

        Chris

        Comment


          #5
          I think Uncle Michael is right, try the switch in a box/circuit you know works right.
          Paul

          Comment


            #6
            Your results so far are consistent with the switch being okay, but an abnormal load condition. I have no idea what the switch is looking for when the light is on, but my guess is that whatever it is, this load is not satisfying it.

            Can you get at the chandelier wiring? It might be worth a look to see if there is anything obviously strange at the fixture. Given that the line passes through the box on the way to the switch, there's a chance that something may not have been connected quite right. I assume bulb brightness appears normal?
            Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
            HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

            HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

            Comment


              #7
              Right, Michael, there's something more insidious going on here than simply a failure of the XPS3. The circuit I'm working with is the original knob-and-tube (one of the few remaining circuits of that sort; the rest have been replaced with romex), but since it's a ceiling fixture, I'm stuck with it unless I go and pull the plaster and lath down, which isn't on my list of fun things to do.

              An XPDI3 (which doesn't involve the neutral line) works correctly with the load attached, and the light bulbs do seem to be of the correct brightness (they're not dim, anyway), but it doesn't give me the option of installing CFLs.


              Chris

              Comment


                #8
                If the equation is only about installing CFLs, then the conclusion seems pretty clear. The cost of replacing the wiring is very likely to exceed any savings from CFLs.

                On the other hand, if there is a safety dimension, the nature of the question changes. It's going to come down to your own assessment, I think. If it were my house I'd be in a quandary about what course of action to take. Have you considered having an electrician give you an assessment of the situation and the cost to replace the wiring? Sometimes there are tricks that might minimize damage to the existing plaster, depending on the specifics of the case.
                Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                Comment


                  #9
                  I do tend to be somewhat "penny wise, pound foolish" when it comes to electrical consumption, but in this case, it's a little different. I'm an engineer, and I need to understand the nature of the problem so I can determine the proper remediation.

                  The dimmer I installed in its place is "working", but what I haven't said is that the XPS3 next to it (which is a 3-way lighting circuit) is temperamental as well. I haven't brought up the 3-way circuit until now because diagnosing problems with a 3-way is an order of magnitude more complicated. The 3-way switch also exhibits the symptom where it can turn on but doesn't always allow being turned back off again. It does work correctly sometimes but not always. By discussing only the 2-way switch problems in this thread, I was focusing the discussion on a far more simple lighting circuit.

                  The 2-way switch misbehaves even when the 3-way XPS3 is removed from the wall, so the problems are unrelated except for the fact that they share the same circuit.

                  So, I guess at this point the discussion is closed, pending finding an electrician to come and take a look. I started a thread over at the X10 forums because I'm hoping that someone over there will know how the switches work internally, and might explain what sorts of problems with the load might cause the switches to behave the way they do.

                  Thanks,
                  Chris

                  Comment


                    #10
                    As the XPS3 is a mechanical device, uses a relay to switch the load then does it switch ON and OFF is you disconnect the load. You should hear the relay "click" each time you touch the face.
                    If yes then its very possible the load is the cause of the problem. As you appear to be able to switch ON but not OFF reliably the load could be putting noise onto the line and killing the X10 signal.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thanks, but it's not an X10 signal problem. I can't even turn it off locally -- nothing happens when you tap the rocker switch while the load is attached -- let alone via X10 command.

                      Comment

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