HS & Serial RS-232

[CharlieWayne]

Hello All.

Recently my pc running HS went up in smooke and forced me to finish building my high end pc. The since I get it all together and an OS installed, I was not able to connect devices that use serial because my mother board does not have any serial ports.

So I ordered a PCIE X1 serial card with a 4 port squib, but it wont fit on the one slot I have due to it hitting the south bridge controler. So this has me all thinking what to do now. There are some PCI Cards that will fit but they only have 1 serial port limiting future expansions.

Currently my WGL Irrigation controller is used with a SENA Serial over IP and its never missed a beat, not to mention reducing wires and cables near my pc.

Looking forward to expansions I wonder just how many serial connections one might need? If I knew the limit I could plan now. Recently also I bought a Pionner AVR and am using the plugin in with that over IP..

With the expansion of my media thought my home Im now looking into Global Caches GC-100-12 to run my IR compenents. But I believe somewhere I read that mulitple plugins can not communicate with these all at the same time (meaning like using Insteon plugin on the Serial conenction while using a another plugin to control the IR ports. DID I Get this Correct?????

Heres a quick list of what interfaces I have today

***Insteion PLM over serial using HS Plugin
***Sena Over Ip for the WGL Irrigation
***Pioneer AVR over IP with HS Plugin

I can totally see myself using many things more like the following

***IR Controls in ALL rooms that have IR devices in them
***ELK Security System (I think this security uses Serial but might also have IP options)
***Weather Stations
***One Wire networks for Temp, Humidity, Etc...


In summary what I am asking is this. Can HS use multiple plugins on one controller such as the GC-100-12?

How is everyone else running multiple Serial Devices?

Thanks

[mfreese]

I use several WizNet serial to IP gateways with things like my Insteon serial PLM, an RFID reader and a ZTroller. They are relatively cheap and work great.

Here's a link http://www.wiznet.co.kr/sub_modules/...te3=0&pid=1040. They also sell multi port versions.

The free Etherlogic Virtual Serial Port Emulator (VSPE) allows my homeseer pc to connect a to the ip serial port and split them into as many virtual ports as I need. This way I can have multiple plugins, or even other software using the same serial port to read data. I haven't tried to have two applications write data at the same time, but I imagine that could be a problem.

[Midon]

I have multiple serial devices connected on my HS system. One uses the built-in serial port, but I have others remoted in via Quatech IP/Serial servers and others locally connected via an EdgePort/4 USB to serial. No issues, ever.

Mitch

[Uncle Michael]

I have HS running on a laptop. No serial ports. I mostly use USB to Serial converters, including an Edgeport/8. I also use the Quatech QSE100D.

You can find used Edgeport boxes on eBay frequently. The Quatech boxes are not so easy to get for a reasonable price any more, but used ones still show up once in a while.

[Pete]

Here too use Digi 7 port Hub to two Digi 8 port Edgeports plus 2 Quatech serial network servers. Years now.

The aforementioned devices are considered typically for commercial environments, high quality and built to last.

I have two legacy serial ports and a couple of USB to Serial Devices that I utilize for testing.

I purchased all of the above used on EBay for a reasonable price.

[mfreese]

I use several WizNet WIZ110SR modules (http://www.wiznet.co.kr/sub_modules/...te3=0&pid=1040) for my Insteon serial PLM, z-troller and serial RFID reader. They work great and allow me to place serial devices where i need them. As a bonus they are cheap, only about 30 dollars each. They can be ordered in the US from Sparkfun .

On homeseer server I use Etherlogic's Virtual Serial Port Emulator (free 32 bit version). It's a great program that allows the PC to see the ip serial adapters as local ports. It can also do things like split physical serial ports into multiple ports. That way two plugins, or even other software can access the port.

One way I am using this is with the CurrentCost energy monitor plugin. I have a physical (usb) serial port (COM 3) VSPE connects to this port and splits it into two separate ports, Com 20 and COM 21. Homeseer plugin connects to COM 20 and the CurrentCost data uploader connects to COM 21.

I haven't tried to write to the VSPE ports from two separate applications at once.

[CharlieWayne]

Thanks for your suggestion and it seems now I will have lots of reading up on each products manual.

One question that I know the manuals wont tell me is with respect the the Homeseer Plugins and COM Port config on the Interface page within HS.

Can I run multiple plugins through one of theses devices such as the GC-100-06, GC-100-12, Quatech IP/Serial servers, etc.

EXAMPLE --->>Meaning such as for an example the GC-100-12 that I have my eye on, It would have connected to it my Insteon PLM on a serial port running Mark Sandlers Insteon PLM Plug-In, and on the second serial port have a MIDON TEMP08 running its necessary plugin, and lastly IR components hooked up to the 3.5 mm running a UltraJones UltraGCIR Plug-in or even the HS Plugin.

With all hooked up like this this device, you would have 3 different plugins all trying to communicate with the same Serial/IP device.

Is this possible to have all these plugins running with the same Virtual Comport? (I'm not sure how that would be set up with assigning a comport in the interface setup page)


Here are some info I found on the web regarding this but I dont understand if HS can do this.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COM_port_redirector#Virtual_serial_port

A virtual serial port may have the same name as physical one. This facility allows real serial port overlapping (mapping) and receiving data from a physical port through virtual port. In other words, you can map any serial port or virtual port to any other existing port in your system. In this case applications will work with virtual ports, but, in fact, they will receive data from overlapped real ports.[/SIZE]

[Uncle Michael]

I have no experience with the GC100, but the Edgeport/8 has 8 separate 9-pin connectors, and looks to Windows like 8 serial ports. Similarly, the Quatech QSE100D has 4 connectors and looks like 4 serial ports to Windows.

(Even at 115,000 baud, by my calculations, the data rate is over 1000 times slower than USB 2.0, and most plug-ins don't tax 9600 baud.)

[CharlieWayne]

Excellent, that's answer just the question that I had on my mind. I can see how serial over ip devices will be assigned a com port Per each output/input connection.

What did u mean by your last statment regarding the speed of serial and USB? (Even if USB gets the data to the serial connection faster, wont all that just bottleneck at the serial due to lesser speeds?)

What did you mean plugins dont tax baud 9600?

[Uncle Michael]

What did u mean by your last statment regarding the speed of serial and USB? (Even if USB gets the data to the serial connection faster, wont all that just bottleneck at the serial due to lesser speeds?)

I'm no expert on this issue, so maybe someone else will offer a more authoritative response, but in my simple view, the signals are split by the converter before they are converted to conventional serial. Once split, they each have a dedicated full-speed serial connection.

What did you mean plugins dont tax baud 9600?

Most of the plug-ins I use run at 9600 baud and are only infrequently engaged in serial communication, so they actually consume a small fraction of the total capacity available at that baud rate.

[Ultrajones]

With the expansion of my media thought my home Im now looking into Global Caches GC-100-12 to run my IR compenents. But I believe somewhere I read that mulitple plugins can not communicate with these all at the same time (meaning like using Insteon plugin on the Serial conenction while using a another plugin to control the IR ports. DID I Get this Correct?????

No, you didn't You can have one device connected to control the IR and relays and 1 device to use serial 1 and another to use serial 2. So, 3 total.

Regards,
Ultrajones

[Pete]

On a similiar topic I have my Russound zoned amps controlled by two different serially connected applications.

A test of sorts and it works fine.

One control is via the Homeseer Russound plugin and the other is via my HAI OPII panel (touchscreens).

Russound zoned amps have KPL keypads, Omnitouch screens and HSTouch screen control.

I was testing this the other day sending out Russound commands and looking at the KPL keypads for response times. It was quick.

Here is the serial splitter (serial router) that I am using:

http://avocationsystems.com/products...splitters-sr2/

The SR-2 allows two control systems to have access and control of a product with a single RS-232 port. Communications through Port A or Port B will be sent to the Master Port. When the product responds through the Master Port the communications will be sent to both Port A and Port B. Please note that the SR-2 only has RX, TX and Ground signals and is capable of transmissions speeds up to 460800 baud.

Attached are two pics; one showing 16 serial ports using the Digi Edgeports. The second picture shows 24 serial ethernet connected ports. All of these can be utilized for automation stuff.

My preference is to utilize serial and network for HA devices rather than USB. I have tested the USB to Network stuff with Lantronix and Digi.

That said I had issues testing this stuff (USB to network) with VM's; enterprise endeavors and USB hardware a few years back. Its better today but not much.

I have also tested active USB extenders (going over 50 feet) and they do work but not well and I wouldn't really depend on these for HA type stuff.

A couple of years ago I did test a HS VM though using a Digi USBAnywhere connected to the Digi 7 port USB hub connected to the 2 Digi Edgeports for 16 serial port devices and it did work. The only devices that I could not get to work were a USB sound card and the USB Waytocall box. These though did work with the Lantronics USB to Network device. IE: you can configure HS on a VM and use the network for all of your hardware connectivity or have HS running on a computer with no direct hardware connectivity (using the network for all your stuff).

[CharlieWayne]

On the topic of speed and price, I love cat 6 cable cause I have a ranch house with an open attic so drilling holes and pulling wire down the walls is too easy.

Mike was talking about how many plugins don't use even use much of the bandwidth of serial but were have to converters to go from LAN to Serial and this is an added cost. So why don't all devices just use a LAN connection with an assigned IP.

On the other hand I ask does HS and the plugins really need all the bandwidth? The only time I ever see any lag time in my system is with Insteon when I'm using HS Touch on my Android. When I'm controlling a Insteon device from my andriod its fast and snappy the first time I request the change of state BUT if I state changing the light from 30% to 80% to 50%, etc, then it my automation system will lag for upto 3 or 4 seconds before the device catches up. I haven't head time to read up or to look into to this but its kind of topic related.

Another example of connection would be an ELK M1 Gold. It comes with a built in serial device with the board but they do offer for an additional fee an LAN/IP interface. My point and question here is do we really benefits of the spped on CAT 5 or CAT 6?

[Uncle Michael]

So why don't all devices just use a LAN connection with an assigned IP.

My guess is that much of the HA hardware uses componenets that were designed a l_o_n_g time ago.

On the other hand I ask does HS and the plugins really need all the bandwidth?

No. It just comes standard on even basic computers. (HSTouch may be an exception. It benefits from bandwidth more than most plug-ins.)

My point and question here is do we really benefits of the spped on CAT 5 or CAT 6?

If you are asking about serial communication, then I'd guess the answer is, No. If you are asking about network speed, then yes, as long as the network hardware is capable. I certainly see a difference in video transmission when going from 100 Mbps to 1000 Mbps.

[Pete]

Here in the midwest I got a deal in the early 2000's for "boxes" of Cat5E cable. I went nuts and ran much cable; non stop and it mostly sat unused. I "built" a chase in my two story home from the basement "server/Comm area" up two floors to the attic.

I did use RS-232 to RJ-45 connections for my serial hardware to Homeseer devices. I did utilize my personal "at work" experience was that it worked just fine for me in the middle 1990's.

That said fast forward to today.

My Homeseer Digi edgeports sit maybe some twenty feet from the Homeseer server. All of the 16 ports utilize cat5e cables as a means of end to end small footprint connectivity to and from patch panels.

I have switched the network connectivity these days to Gb and it works just fine and very reasonable in cost these days.

I've added the RS-232 to network stuff; it does fine. IE: though my GPS time sync still talks at 4800 baud rate speed and the network transport just provides a medium for the transport.

There was some thought processes back in the early 2000's that fiber would be the only way to to go in a home; it was very expensive back then; and the art of fiber terminations was an art and very expensive.

As stated above the advantages of increased speeds and bandwidth are more related to what it is that you are passing on the topology.

Most of the old hardware RS-232 still talks mostly at 9600 baud.

The bandwidth though needed for digital transmissions / throughput of higher resolution video distributions either directly or via stream can function the best with the most provided bandwidth; albeit though you have new algorhythms today which do some really great compression; such that you can fit more on the transport pipe and the pipe has multiple to/from highways. (like for example multiple POE devices like touchscreens and digital HD cameras which talk GB)

You want to plan for "tomorrow" because you don't really know what means or mechanisms of use of existing topology will be utilized for this and that. The least cost prohibitive (especially for the DIY'er) is the medium or the wires and the labor of said installation is whatever you make of it.

A few years back; I redid my family room. Literally gutting it. That said WAF was very low during this endeavor because of the time (my time) and going in baby steps relating to the infrastructure. The walls were open; I took advantage of it putting in enough wires for a 7 speaker surround sound system. I went to redoing the electrical adding outlets and separating circuits; ahhh and the cabling; I added 6 cat5e cables just for the networking that didn't exist at the time for multimedia, still wiring and connecting RG6 cables for satellite, cable, broadband stuff...here I figured in my time and efforts were directly related to what if I could or what can be utilized; et al.

Have a quick read on Cocoontech. Many other folks have done what you want to do; read their experiences.

Look here on the various Homeseer forum posts going back the early 2000's and relating to exactly what you are writing about.

On the Homeseer forum you have a collection of a knowledge base relating to much of almost anything that can be automated these days.

Homeseer software has evolved over the years with the times such that almost anything you can think or automate can be done with Homeseer. There is no competition (literally).

That said even today I'm not done; but I enjoy what I have done and what I want to do related to home automation and mostly still the thrill of the chase (literally) of what I may do drives me in my old age. That's me though.