Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Newbie needs advice with special situation

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Newbie needs advice with special situation

    I have been researching different home automation solutions and have decided that the Zee is what I will go with. I want to combine home security with automation and need local control due to spotty internet.

    The problem I have is that I want to include my barn in the mix and it sits about 500' from the house. Would it be possible to link the barn via X10 or UPB, I have not been able to find out if I can get the signal to travel that far.

    Is there a better solution for the barn?

    #2
    Originally posted by actonusa View Post
    Is there a better solution for the barn?
    If the barn is on the same transformer as the rest of the house, then it may work, but you may need repeaters or special interfaces that send a stronger signal then some of the cheaper interfaces. Here's one example: http://jvde.us/xtb/XTB-232_description.htm. What type of equipment/systems are you looking to control in the barn? Do you have other cabling to the barn (CAt5 or 6, phone cabling, alarm cabling)? Do you have line of sight from the house to the barn for a wireless link?

    Cheers
    Al

    PS Note that the current version of the Zee is limited to a small number of plugins. A new version is supposed to be coming soon that removes that limitation. Another option may be the Raspberry Pi 2 with the Linux version of HS3 installed.
    HS 3.0.0.548: 1990 Devices 1172 Events
    Z-Wave 3.0.1.262: 126 Nodes on one Z-Net

    Comment


      #3
      You mentioned that you want to " combine home security with automation". Be aware that the current Zee will not run any of the current security system plugins so you may want to consider another controller if you are wanting to run a security system plugin.
      -Rupp
      sigpic

      Comment


        #4
        500 ft is far, but if you can even get a cat 5 or 6 cable to the barn it would be best with a z-net interface in the barn. Cat 5/6 cable on ebay is between $50-70(I believe) for a 1000ft. Off course you need to run that in a conduit (1/2) which is quite cheap. The other way would be to do direct burial cat 5 or 6 cable which would run about $80.
        Here I've got my z-stick(in the house) reaching my z-wave controlled front gate, and lights that is about 250ft away. The new z-net is supposed to have far better range than the old z-stick. The way I did this was to have or 3 z-wave electrical outlet spread out over that distance at 50-60ft intervals. Once the network "learns" the location of your z-wave nodes(outlets, lights, gate, etc) it works without any hangups. This wasn't a waste of z-wave outlets, because it stretches the power through out the property and very convenient for Xmas lights.
        Tom
        baby steps...starting again with HS3
        HS3Pro: Z-NET & 80 Z wave Devices,
        HSTouch: 4 Joggler (Android Kitkat), 2 iPhone, 3 iPads
        Whole House Audio: 5 SqueezePlay Jogglers w Bose Speakers
        In The Works: 10 Cameras Geovision, new Adecmo/Envisalink Alarm, Arduinos
        System: XP on Fanless Mini-ITX w/ SSD

        Comment


          #5
          And as sparkman stated it would be better to go Raspberry Pi 2(faster) with the Linux version(OS is available on the forum) of HS3 installed(they have a 50% off sale till end of the week). Usually only see this sale in November.

          This way you can use the HS DSC Alarm panel plugin or 3rd Party Ademco Alarm Panel ( either serial-AD2USB or IP-Envisalink based plugins)
          Tom
          baby steps...starting again with HS3
          HS3Pro: Z-NET & 80 Z wave Devices,
          HSTouch: 4 Joggler (Android Kitkat), 2 iPhone, 3 iPads
          Whole House Audio: 5 SqueezePlay Jogglers w Bose Speakers
          In The Works: 10 Cameras Geovision, new Adecmo/Envisalink Alarm, Arduinos
          System: XP on Fanless Mini-ITX w/ SSD

          Comment


            #6
            Is there a better solution for the barn?
            Wires or fiber. Wire hardwire to the panel and keypad (s). You want to have at least one keypad connected to the panel. Homeseer soft to the network interface on the panel (preferred NOT wireless - my opinion).

            That said the limits of an CATXX cable length is 100 meters or 300 feet.

            Relating to life and safety stuff the preference is to utilize wires rather than wireless unless you have no choices but to go with wireless.

            The made for alarm panel wireless do whats are approved for life safety stuff and the the wireless alarm doo whats are built for alarm panels. Just a side note ....


            I helped a friend a few years back connect his old home to his newly constructed home.

            It was a farm and he trenched and used outdoor cables from his old to new home. He was at around 320 feet and the network connection did work.

            The alternative is to utilize fiber....

            Found a methodology to go beyond 300 feet. I am not sure how these devices would be buried. The following devices would also extend POE more than 300 feet. You can then power the RPi via a POE connection. Note I just googled your issue and the follow products came up. Guessing there are more companies making these devices.

            Ethernet and POE Extender



            Ethernet Extender for POE and POE Plus equipment

            OUTREACH Max enables network installers to overcome the distance limitations of Ethernet and Power over Ethernet (POE) easily, meaning that IP cameras, wireless access points, and other POE-powered network devices can be located right where they are needed.

            Simply connect OUTREACH Max in-line with the Cat5 or Cat6 network cable for every extra 100 metres (328 feet) of length required. No configuration or electrical supply is needed, and full-rate network throughput is maintained.

            Note: OUTREACH Max extends network connections to POE-enabled devices only. To extend the range of Ethernet without POE, see Veracity's OUTREACH Lite Ethernet extenders.



            Range:

            100m (328') per cable segment between OUTREACH Max units:

            Camera power - 6W 12W 18W 25W
            Range with POE switch 6W @ 400m 12W@200m
            Range with OUTSOURCE 700m 300m
            Range with OUTSOURCE Plus 700m 450m 350m 200m

            Network:
            10BASE-T / 100BASE-TX, full/half duplex (auto-negotiated)
            Patch or crossover cables

            POE standards supported:
            IEEE 802.3af POE
            IEEE 802.3at (2-event) POE Plus
            "Always-on" / "dumb" 48V POE
            "Four-pair" POE

            You can also purchase fiber cheap these days and just terminate the ends.

            Google a DIY for fiber installation. It is much more reasonable in cost these days. Thing is you will not be able to do POE with fiber. You can though purchase a combo fiber / POE switch if the power is there in the barn.

            You can also extend a serial connection to the barn and use whatever serial / Network PIM you want. (IE: X10, UPB or Z-Wave). There are a few folks here doing that today with the new Z-Net device via a network connection.
            Last edited by Pete; May 5, 2015, 09:18 AM.
            - Pete

            Auto mator
            Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
            Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
            HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 20.04 / VB W7e Jetway JBC420U591
            Fanless Intel® Celeron N3160 SoC 8Gb
            HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 20.04/VB W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb
            HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets

            X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Smartthings hub, Hubitat Hub, and Home Assistant

            Comment


              #7
              Pete hit it. I was going to state that Ethernet (copper) cannot travel longer than 300' by spec. It might work, but anything I've ever run that was farther than that, I either stuck a HUB in the middle somewhere, or ran fiber (which has the ability to hit 2Km with cheapy "residential" grade stuff...professional can drive a bit farther when needed).

              You might consider wireless with something like a cantenna...
              http://www.cantenna.com/
              Or if you have two laying around - old DirectTV satellite dishes work great (you need the internet kind where you can TX and RX).

              Basically, you need to focus all the energy of the wireless to get the farther range. Will it be reliable? I do not know...I hardwire everything I can. I personally do not like wireless...NOT saying it is bad, just personal opinion.

              IN you case, if it were me, I might try wireless first because of the cost of running fiber underground. Then again, I might do the fiber, cost of that stuff has come way down. Some fiber to copper converters are pretty cheap now ($50ish each). You get two of those, put one in the barn, one in the house. Plug those into switches and you are ready to rock.

              Or spend the $40 - $80 each and get two 6.6Gb - 10Gb SFP+ modules, then get a SFP capable switch. That would work as well.

              I see a 4.25Gb Intel SFP (not SFP+) modules are on e-bay for $25 each.
              Heck, you could get a 500 pack for $0.75 each! Nice.
              http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...00000&_sacat=0

              Anyway, keep posting, I'm sure the community will allow you to draw from our experience, which will help you make the RIGHT choice.

              --Dan
              Tasker, to a person who does Homeautomation...is like walking up to a Crack Treatment facility with a truck full of 3lb bags of crack. Then for each person that walks in and out smack them in the face with an open bag.

              Comment


                #8
                Yes as Pete stated the limit of cat5/6 rating spec is about 300 so if it is to serve for a real network than a diy solution then this is not the way. But if it's not a heavily utilized path other than z-net you "may" be able to get away with it. Off course you won't have cat5/6 spec. I don't know about 500ft but I helped a neighbor run about 400ft of cat6 to his dock for a lan port. It worked.
                I'm also running cat 6 close to 400 ft for poe ip cameras here on few cameras here as I test the perimeters of the property.
                If you don't want to experiment or take a chance I've heard a inexpensive switch can act as a signal repeater over lengths of 300ft. I'm not sure about this but I thought I'd try the diy way with cable. Also when I first started the word form techs was that there was no way to cover 250ft in zwave. Again this may not be spec but it works reliably for the few zwave devices I have at the end of the 250 length.


                Tom
                Tom
                baby steps...starting again with HS3
                HS3Pro: Z-NET & 80 Z wave Devices,
                HSTouch: 4 Joggler (Android Kitkat), 2 iPhone, 3 iPads
                Whole House Audio: 5 SqueezePlay Jogglers w Bose Speakers
                In The Works: 10 Cameras Geovision, new Adecmo/Envisalink Alarm, Arduinos
                System: XP on Fanless Mini-ITX w/ SSD

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yup; you can experiment effortlessly.

                  Just purchase a 1000 feet spool of CatXX and pull a length of it outside between house and barn. Terminate and test it. It takes about 5 minutes to terminate the ends of it so you can check it.

                  Googling...

                  Running a cable more then the suggested length shouldn't be an option. When you go over the max length of 100M, the cable will still work but you will most definitely drop packets and run into issues that you "cant explain" due to attenuation.
                  You can put an outdoor style POE switch in the middle providing two 250 feet segments.

                  Put the stuff in one of those plastic landscaping boulders and weigh and anchor it down. I purchased one once and still have it. From far away it looks to be some 400lb boulder; but its just plastic. Or just an 8 foot 6X6 post in the middle with a plastic outdoor box on it.

                  Here I have played with small made for outdoor (in a box) Tycon Power midstream switches.



                  These are POE powered and do work well in outdoor environments as they are made for extending wireless access points outdoors; they are industrial looking.
                  Last edited by Pete; May 5, 2015, 10:13 AM.
                  - Pete

                  Auto mator
                  Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
                  Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
                  HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 20.04 / VB W7e Jetway JBC420U591
                  Fanless Intel® Celeron N3160 SoC 8Gb
                  HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 20.04/VB W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb
                  HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets

                  X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Smartthings hub, Hubitat Hub, and Home Assistant

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Guess I should have put a bit more detail in original post. The security I plan on using will be zwave "deterrent" sensors and not a full blown security system. This will be for the house as well as the barn.

                    The barn will have 2-3 window sensors, one man door sensor and some sort of a garage door sensor.

                    The house will have maybe 20-30 devices when it is all said and done.

                    For the barn I didnt really want to go the way of cabling because there is a driveway and numerous trees, that would make burying a nightmare. There is however a decent line of sight for wireless. I am able to pick up a weak signal from the house with only the cheap router provided by Frontier.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Oh and the only cabling currently going to the barn is 110 amp electric service routed directly from the house panel.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I've had a few different wifi routers and I have to save the best "for me" w regard to range , ease of use and set up has been apple AirPort Extreme. I'm about to put another one other side of my house so that the entire property ( most used areas outside) will have wifi. 2 AirPort Extremes can linked together to spread wifi to a greater range.
                        I don't know if you can get 500 ft though. But you could cable to as far as you can easily go then stick the AirPort Extreme in a outdoor enclosure to hit the barn. Again it's the ease of use and reliability that's made be go with the extreme even though there are cheaper ones out there.


                        Tom
                        Tom
                        baby steps...starting again with HS3
                        HS3Pro: Z-NET & 80 Z wave Devices,
                        HSTouch: 4 Joggler (Android Kitkat), 2 iPhone, 3 iPads
                        Whole House Audio: 5 SqueezePlay Jogglers w Bose Speakers
                        In The Works: 10 Cameras Geovision, new Adecmo/Envisalink Alarm, Arduinos
                        System: XP on Fanless Mini-ITX w/ SSD

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by actonusa View Post
                          Oh and the only cabling currently going to the barn is 110 amp electric service routed directly from the house panel.
                          Then you could use inseton since it travels over electric lines right? I'm not an expert but I would post in one of the inseton threads and ask.


                          Tom
                          Tom
                          baby steps...starting again with HS3
                          HS3Pro: Z-NET & 80 Z wave Devices,
                          HSTouch: 4 Joggler (Android Kitkat), 2 iPhone, 3 iPads
                          Whole House Audio: 5 SqueezePlay Jogglers w Bose Speakers
                          In The Works: 10 Cameras Geovision, new Adecmo/Envisalink Alarm, Arduinos
                          System: XP on Fanless Mini-ITX w/ SSD

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Here tested powerline ethernet between the new and old home on the farm and it didn't work (~300 feet + wherever power feeds ran).

                            I would suggest though relating to wireless to utilize Ubiquiti stuff for a reasonably prices point to point wireless bridge. It is a plug n play reasonably priced set up with commercial quality stuff and a small footprint easy peasey installation.



                            Ubiquiti Nanostation LOCO M5 Outdoor MIMO 11n 5GHz. Loco M5 (2 pack) is on Amazon for $134.

                            A posted comment relating to an endeavor using Ubiquiti

                            I've been happy with Ubiquity products for several years now and this purchase was no different. I have used the Ubiquity Nanostation access points in the past, but wanted to purchase a pair so that I could setup a bridge between two buildings (about 500 feet apart).

                            Ubiquity products are powerful, durable, and very affordable. I give this product 4 stars, however, because the user interface is not very user friendly. It was difficult to figure out how to configure the two units to work as a bridge to provide network service to a remote building. Once configured, these units are rock solid. I have them working in outdoor locations with limited line of sight and I have great throughput.
                            or

                            two modded with antennas DD-WRT boxes. (which is way better than any store purchased off the shelf AP today).

                            The friend with the farm also owns apartment building in the local town. Looking to install an Ubiquiti wireless bridge (connecting to Comcast) from the top of one of the apartment buildings to his farm. (a few miles away with an almost line of site view on the farm / roof of his new home).
                            Last edited by Pete; May 6, 2015, 08:50 AM.
                            - Pete

                            Auto mator
                            Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
                            Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
                            HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 20.04 / VB W7e Jetway JBC420U591
                            Fanless Intel® Celeron N3160 SoC 8Gb
                            HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 20.04/VB W7e 64 bit Intel Kaby Lake CPU - 32Gb
                            HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets

                            X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Smartthings hub, Hubitat Hub, and Home Assistant

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X