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  • Z-Wave Motion PIR questions

    I just got a Z-Wave SmartStick+. I have never used any zwave in the past. To get my feet wet I ordered an Ecolink PIR.

    I got it paired and working OK. But I'm surprised it only triggers once every 4 minutes. I'm guessing that's to save battery power as the battery is supposed to last for 4 or 5 years.

    The motion PIRs I use for lighting are hardwired to my alarm and work reliably. I was hoping to use zwave for those hard to reach wiring spots.

    1. Is once every 4 minutes good enough to trigger lighting in practice?
    2. Is zwave/wireless fast enough to trigger lighting vs hardwire?
    3. Does every zwave device repeat signals. I'm finding the corners or my house are not getting signal back to the SmartStick+
    -Tim

    HSPro - 3.XXX - Dell mini W7 x32
    Way2 Call
    Elk M1 Gold
    UPB HAI switches
    HAI RC2000 Thermostat

  • #2
    1. Seems like a good setting. ie if motion is detected then turn light on. It's not like you are going to need to seen a continious light on command.
    2. A well optimized network should send a command in a second or less unless the network is overloaded with polling.
    3. Battery operated devices do not relay to save battery power.
    -Rupp
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Originally posted by email68 View Post
      1. Is once every 4 minutes good enough to trigger lighting in practice?
      I'm not familiar with the exact model of PIR you mention but you should be able to configure the no motion time out. I can't see why 4 minutes would be a problem for lighting unless you want to turn the light off less than 4 minutes after last detected motion.

      Originally posted by email68 View Post
      2. Is zwave/wireless fast enough to trigger lighting vs hardwire?
      My experience with a network of about 45 devices is that Z-Wave is almost instant and plenty fast enough to trigger lighting. I have all instant status devices here so no polling clogging up the network.

      Originally posted by email68 View Post
      3. Does every zwave device repeat signals. I'm finding the corners or my house are not getting signal back to the SmartStick+
      Battery powered devices don't repeat so you will need a good network of mains powered devices in place to provide a robust Z-Wave mesh.

      Paul..

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      • #4
        I have the same sensors and think they are really good for the cost. There is a dip switch to change from 4 min to 10 seconds (test mode). I run mine in test mode and don't see any issues with battery usage. Still at 100 percent after 5 months. There is no other way to change the timeout. I also have the aeon 4 in 1 which you can change the timeout but they eat batteries and have false triggers. Eventually they will all be replaced.

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        • #5
          I think I understand the process now.

          When the sensor is idle, it transmits a NO MOTION signal once. When there is motion, it transmits a MOTION signal once and starts an internal timer. Continued motion simply resets the internal timer. No further motion transmissions are made.

          Only after the motion is idle until the internal PIR timer expires does it transmit a single NO MOTION signal.

          So the question, is there a chance that single NO MOTION signal could be missed, or is there some kind of re-transmission protocol for verification or handshake?
          -Tim

          HSPro - 3.XXX - Dell mini W7 x32
          Way2 Call
          Elk M1 Gold
          UPB HAI switches
          HAI RC2000 Thermostat

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          • #6
            There is always a chance depending on your z wave network. The more nodes you have the less likely the chance. I can say from my experience with battery powered motions, they respond very well. I have 3. I use two on my stairs to trigger the lights when going up and down. Never missed a beat.

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            • #7
              I guess my question is this. If the PIR sends a status update and does not receive an acknowledgment, will it send again?
              -Tim

              HSPro - 3.XXX - Dell mini W7 x32
              Way2 Call
              Elk M1 Gold
              UPB HAI switches
              HAI RC2000 Thermostat

              Comment


              • #8
                No. The controller does not return an acknowledgement when a node initiates communication. A node does acknowledge communication when it is initiated from the controller.

                The Z-Wave protocol was designed so the implementation would be cheap with reliability way down the list. It's very unfortunate a better protocol wasn't designed.

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                • #9
                  This is HUGE issue. If it skips a beat just when you go to bed, than the lights will be on all night. Even worse if it happens in the evening when you depart on 2 weeks vacation.
                  Any suggestions for really good PIR sensors. I tried HSM100 - complete crap. I have 14 of them will sell at half price with disclaimer that they are not worth it.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by risquare View Post
                    This is HUGE issue. If it skips a beat just when you go to bed, than the lights will be on all night. Even worse if it happens in the evening when you depart on 2 weeks vacation.
                    This is not just an issue with z-wave. Most non-security system wireless motion sensors work the same way. IMHO the best way to deal with it is to have fail-safe events that resets the motion sensors status to off if a new motion detected signal is not received after a period of time.

                    Cheers
                    Al
                    HS 3.0.0.548: 1990 Devices 1172 Events
                    Z-Wave 3.0.1.262: 126 Nodes on one Z-Net

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                    • #11
                      This makes sense sparkman. When those workarounds become too many than it is a problem but I guess it's part of life :-)

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                      • #12
                        Although I have only had them for a month, so far I like this Enerwave device. It is much better than my X-10 which do stay on sometimes.

                        I did get one bad Enerwave device out of two but it was promptly replaced through Amazon (2 days).

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                        • #13
                          It may or may not be helpful, but there are a few plugins around the place (e.g. BLRadar) which can have inbuilt failsafe time limits, that way if motion not detected is not received within say 4 minutes, it assumed it should have been and turns the device off.

                          This way you don't need to worry about failsafe events as much, that said it is a paid plugin.
                          HS3 PRO, Win10, WeatherXML, HSTouch, Pushover, UltraGCIR, Heaps of Jon00 Plugins, Just sold and about to move so very slim system.

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