If Homeseer went away ??

[collegeboyslive]

Rich, wondering why you haven't chimed in on this?

[cytec]

What I would like to see would be a fund setup to support the long-term development of the software similar to the Ubuntu Foundation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Foundation

A number of wealthy individuals could potentially put together such a fund.

Just an idea.

[mstukel]

+ 1 – I too have been extremely impressed with flexibility and breadth of the HomeSeer offerings and HomeSeer’s inclusive approach to their user base. The HomeSeer’s model really encourages loyalty - IMHO.

In regards to the acquisition scenario – it really does not guarantee success. I still remember the hype when Motorola acquired Premise SYS (back in the early 2000s). Unfortunately that acquisition did not work well...but there does appears to be a support community around the SYS final build.

‘’http://cocoontech.com/forums/page/ho...e/_/premise-r3

[reidfo]

I doubt Rich will provide input here, because as a business owner you don't want to limit your future options by committing to a particular path. If HS were to be bought, the potential buyer wouldn't want to be locked in to any promises the seller made. Take for instance SageTV. Great small company, snarfed up by Google and essentially disappeared. While SageTV's customers weren't thrilled, it was a great deal for the owners. Can't fault them for selling, even though I no longer have a centralized DVR.

[rjh]

I have not replied because I did not see this thread, this board is huge and I don't read everything! Greg pointed me to it for comment.

The license server for HS2 is the same one for HS3, but even if it wasn't, there are no plans to take it down. I don't know why your licenses reset, but there won't be any further updates to HS2 so what I would do is backup your entire HS2 folder, that way to can easily get all the licenses back if something bad happens with your system.

I would guess that if we decided to get rid of that license server that we would just offer a ver of HS2 with the license stuff removed, but for now, it should continue to work fine.

But, please consider updating to HS3, it is so much better, you are missing out on so much, and much more stuff is coming!

[happnatious1]

I have not replied because I did not see this thread, this board is huge and I don't read everything! Greg pointed me to it for comment.

The license server for HS2 is the same one for HS3, but even if it wasn't, there are no plans to take it down. I don't know why your licenses reset, but there won't be any further updates to HS2 so what I would do is backup your entire HS2 folder, that way to can easily get all the licenses back if something bad happens with your system.

I would guess that if we decided to get rid of that license server that we would just offer a ver of HS2 with the license stuff removed, but for now, it should continue to work fine.

But, please consider updating to HS3, it is so much better, you are missing out on so much, and much more stuff is coming!

Hey Rich,

As someone who is totally addicted to this board I use the "New Posts" link at the top to keep up to date on what's "trending". That way I don't miss out on threads like this one: http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=176551

[mikedr]

I'll add my two cents. I think the window for HomeSeer to be purchased has closed for the foreseeable future. It seems that once HomeKit was announced, everyone got scared, and tried to preempt Apple. Hence, two-three years ago, Google buying Revolv (and closing it down), Samsung buying SmartThings, Lowes doing Iris, Staples doing Connect, Wink being around, etc.

Now . . . . Iris doesn't seem to be that important to Lowes. Connect less so to Staples. Wink is basically gone. Not sure how SmartThings is doing. HomeKit still has "potential." (And there are others, Wemo, etc., but I wouldn't hold my breath for a solution from the likes of Belkin.)

I think we're basically where we were pre-HomeKit -- you have a small number of DIY solutions -- HomeSeer, Vera, Indigo on the Mac, etc. -- and a small number of professional/contractor-installed solutions (Crestron and friends).

I think Lowes, Staples, and so on were thinking that the technology had advanced to the point where the average consumer could install and use the devices with minimal support and handholding, and I don't think home automation is there yet (and for a good chunk of the population -- a majority? -- the amount of home automation they need is limited to none). The market I see for HS, Vera, and so on, is the enthusisast market.

I think Apple is trying to make it more "average Joe," but frankly, as a huge Apple fan (new version Mac Pro, four iPads, two iPhones, and a MacBook Pro in the household), I don't think they'll succeed. Apple seems to throw a lot of crap at the fan and see what sticks ("Ping" anyone?). And lately I feel that their software offerings have decreased in quality (Music . . . post-Snow Leopard OSX).

So my view on HomeSeer is that it'll be around as long as the owners want to keep running it. Prresumably it's profitable. The enthusiast market will only grow, albeit slowly.

[TomTom]

Very well said!!

I'll add my two cents. I think the window for HomeSeer to be purchased has closed for the foreseeable future. It seems that once HomeKit was announced, everyone got scared, and tried to preempt Apple. Hence, two-three years ago, Google buying Revolv (and closing it down), Samsung buying SmartThings, Lowes doing Iris, Staples doing Connect, Wink being around, etc.



Now . . . . Iris doesn't seem to be that important to Lowes. Connect less so to Staples. Wink is basically gone. Not sure how SmartThings is doing. HomeKit still has "potential." (And there are others, Wemo, etc., but I wouldn't hold my breath for a solution from the likes of Belkin.)



I think we're basically where we were pre-HomeKit -- you have a small number of DIY solutions -- HomeSeer, Vera, Indigo on the Mac, etc. -- and a small number of professional/contractor-installed solutions (Crestron and friends).



I think Lowes, Staples, and so on were thinking that the technology had advanced to the point where the average consumer could install and use the devices with minimal support and handholding, and I don't think home automation is there yet (and for a good chunk of the population -- a majority? -- the amount of home automation they need is limited to none). The market I see for HS, Vera, and so on, is the enthusisast market.



I think Apple is trying to make it more "average Joe," but frankly, as a huge Apple fan (new version Mac Pro, four iPads, two iPhones, and a MacBook Pro in the household), I don't think they'll succeed. Apple seems to throw a lot of crap at the fan and see what sticks ("Ping" anyone?). And lately I feel that their software offerings have decreased in quality (Music . . . post-Snow Leopard OSX).



So my view on HomeSeer is that it'll be around as long as the owners want to keep running it. Prresumably it's profitable. The enthusiast market will only grow, albeit slowly.

Sent from my iPhone

[jlrichar]

I'll add my two cents. I think the window for HomeSeer to be purchased has closed for the foreseeable future. It seems that once HomeKit was announced, everyone got scared, and tried to preempt Apple. Hence, two-three years ago, Google buying Revolv (and closing it down), Samsung buying SmartThings, Lowes doing Iris, Staples doing Connect, Wink being around, etc.

Now . . . . Iris doesn't seem to be that important to Lowes. Connect less so to Staples. Wink is basically gone. Not sure how SmartThings is doing. HomeKit still has "potential." (And there are others, Wemo, etc., but I wouldn't hold my breath for a solution from the likes of Belkin.)

I think we're basically where we were pre-HomeKit -- you have a small number of DIY solutions -- HomeSeer, Vera, Indigo on the Mac, etc. -- and a small number of professional/contractor-installed solutions (Crestron and friends).

I think Lowes, Staples, and so on were thinking that the technology had advanced to the point where the average consumer could install and use the devices with minimal support and handholding, and I don't think home automation is there yet (and for a good chunk of the population -- a majority? -- the amount of home automation they need is limited to none). The market I see for HS, Vera, and so on, is the enthusisast market.

I think Apple is trying to make it more "average Joe," but frankly, as a huge Apple fan (new version Mac Pro, four iPads, two iPhones, and a MacBook Pro in the household), I don't think they'll succeed. Apple seems to throw a lot of crap at the fan and see what sticks ("Ping" anyone?). And lately I feel that their software offerings have decreased in quality (Music . . . post-Snow Leopard OSX).

So my view on HomeSeer is that it'll be around as long as the owners want to keep running it. Prresumably it's profitable. The enthusiast market will only grow, albeit slowly.

I find a lot right and a lot wrong with this assessment. Smarttings is very much still around, and is approaching the point where it will pass Homeseer in ease of use and functionality. Though it has to be wildly more successful to justify its continued existence compared to HS. Wink is around still, and likely has way more active users than homeseer--though again if it remains on its current trajectory it will likely disappear. Also, there is logitech with their smart hub which I am hoping they simply provide an API for so it can be more completely integrated into homeseer--though likely they will not do this and simply give up on remotes and decide to make wallpaper or something. Yes I'm still sore about their decision to end their squeezebox line. Really though the most glaring omission is that you did not mention the rise of the clientless automation device. Echo and that Google trojan wifi router/smart hub. Amazon has secretly beaten all the client less companies to the punch, and this is what is in the top spot right now. Revolve? May as well bring up x10 for all the relevance that has now. Today Homeseer has the most graphical way to program your house. The problem it is a crap ton of work. If you could say "Siri (Alexa, Cortana, Google, ...) turn on any rooms light when a person enters a dark room" and be done, versus creating a crap ton of events/virtual devices to figure out if a person is there, if it is dark, and then to turn the lights on for each room--which would most people choose?

At the end though I agree with your assessment that homeseer will be around as long as they want to be. The big question though is will they be relavent?

Recently Rich mentioned in another post that homeseer has a bunch of these hubs setup for market research. I also know they have an Echo. This is great news, as it means they are likely aware of all of this and realize the age of the rs232 automation interface is long gone. In yet another post it was mentioned that there is more in store for HS3!!! Woohoo.

[Jerry Coleman]

Try sending an email to Adobe or Microsoft and ask them how software activation will be handled if they go out of business. You can bet you will not get an answer.
.

This is a family of users that share a common interest in automation for many years.... and we talk all the time... You don't have that at Microsoft or Adobe...

[mikedr]

At the end though I agree with your assessment that homeseer will be around as long as they want to be. The big question though is will they be relavent?

My biggest frustration with HomeSeer is that new functionality rolls out slowly. The various triggering options available on EasyTrigger plug-in, for instance, really should be part of the HS package.

And the HSTouchDesigner, while permitting amazing customization, is too clunky. I'd be happy to give up 10-20% of what's offered to make the remaining stuff a lot easier to use.

As an example, the new version of HS3Touch isn't really different than the old HSTouch, other than some updated icons. Compared to competing systems, it looks amateur-ish. I'd love a more professional looking front end, combined with limited customization (and let people who want to do the full enchilada drop down to HSTouchDesigner).

Other parts of HS seem to be an afterthought -- the status screen of the web interface, for instance, just doesn't work well.

I say all this as a pleased customer. Of all the options available, HS is the best for me, but I think they could easily grab customers of SmartThings and Vera by polishing up the experience and making it look more aesthetically pleasing, along with some ease-of-use enhancements.

[jlrichar]

My biggest frustration with HomeSeer is that new functionality rolls out slowly. The various triggering options available on EasyTrigger plug-in, for instance, really should be part of the HS package.

And the HSTouchDesigner, while permitting amazing customization, is too clunky. I'd be happy to give up 10-20% of what's offered to make the remaining stuff a lot easier to use.

As an example, the new version of HS3Touch isn't really different than the old HSTouch, other than some updated icons. Compared to competing systems, it looks amateur-ish. I'd love a more professional looking front end, combined with limited customization (and let people who want to do the full enchilada drop down to HSTouchDesigner).

Other parts of HS seem to be an afterthought -- the status screen of the web interface, for instance, just doesn't work well.

I say all this as a pleased customer. Of all the options available, HS is the best for me, but I think they could easily grab customers of SmartThings and Vera by polishing up the experience and making it look more aesthetically pleasing, along with some ease-of-use enhancements.

I could not agree more. As a long time customer I see all the potential, and at times it seems that little progress is made. Though every once in a while they release something that they are working on that makes up for it--usually around CES.

The plugin developers have really done a lot, and continue to do a lot. I wish HS at this point gave the touch ui over to plugin developers. I could only imagine what Ultra, Spud, Blade, Rein, and the rest would do with a way to define touch pages for their plugins. To me HS should continue to improve the event engine, triggers, db management, and extend the plugin SDK. If we look at db managment currently there are a few from HS: the device db, and the energy db. There are a bunch in use by plugins, such as location, and charting. Perhaps there could be some benefits if location for example became a property of all devices.

To get sidetracked creating plugins to justify the price difference between pro and non-pro seems to be a no-win strategy. It soaks up resources, and HSPro users will never get everything we want. Perhaps instead they could give us pro users free connect, and gearhouse, and upgraded myhomeseer and cool badge on this board. Then add HSTouch to the main HS SDK in some way that opens it to the plugin devs.

[rjh]

I do agree with most of this. HS is in a niche market, below the pro systems like Control 4, but about the simple systems like Wink. We have decided to not try and compete with systems like Wink. They put NO value on the hub. They have publicly said that they did not even want to make a hub, but they had to in order to support Z-Wave and Zigbee. They want every device to talk directly to their cloud service. So their hub is just a gateway, a very cheap box with not much in it except the radios. At Home Depot they were giving away the hubs for free if you purchased a couple of devices! This is bad for HS as it gives consumers the idea that the hub does not have any value. SmartThings took the same approach (although their latest hub can do some local automation) with a $99 price. We cannot create hardware at that low a price. I will bet you that a good chunk of those Wink hubs are offline, they are an impulse buys. Our users are more tech driven and know what they want to do. We have all of those other systems set up for testing and for sure, no HS user could use any of them. They are very basic, no web interface, you have to do everything on your phone. Only basic control is available. Want to trigger on 30 min before sunset? Nope, can't do it. Plus, if your Internet goes down, or they have a server problem, your automation stops. Note that Iris locked their system to specific devices using the manufacturer ID of the product, forget about adding anything that they do not sell. We tested a system but brought it back due to the lock down, there was no way to test anything on it.

To me, the automation has to always run so having the cloud do the work is unacceptable. Not only for reliability, but for security. Sooner or later someone will hack into one of those servers.

For right now, I don't believe that average user will ever be interested in HA, for one reason. The main part you really need to swap out is your light switches. If you don't do that, you really can't take advantage of automation. How many people have the skills to replace a wall switch? And want to be bothered? Not many. All the attempts to sell HA at retail have failed. We just heard of store sending back all their stock to the vendor because the stuff did not sell. I check out the Iris display at my local Lowes and the stock is low and all the items are covered with dust. It is not moving around here. Plus, the guys in the store don't know anything about it.

We know who our customers are and will continue to cater to this market. It may not be huge, but I do think its growing.

In regards to HomeKit, at some point we will add support for it. Right now though I think it is not a wise use of our resources. It is simply a protocol that allows different systems to work together. Unfortunately its IOS only, so what good is that? It is good PR to support it.

As for new features, there was a mention of HSTouch. Right now maintaining HSTouch is a huge amount of work. All our apps are native so making a change means changing code in Objective C, Java, and .NET. We have a new development system that allows us to create one set of code and output apps for IOS, Android, and Windows Phone. Z-Tool+ was the first app to use this tool and its pretty awesome. We are working on a new HSTouch app that does not use the Designer. It will be out in stages so we can get feedback as we develop it. But the development time will be greatly reduced. Note that we will continue to support the current HSTouch and Designer. The Designer is a feature that no other system offers.

As to other developers creating UI's, we recently added JSON support to HS. This greatly simplifies the ability for developers to create UI's. I know a few have been created already. I have a sample Windows app that uses the API that I really need to get posted as it would be a jump start for anyone trying to do their own UI.

The Amazon Echo has created a lot of interest in voice recognition and we have an app submitted to Amazon, just waiting for it to be approved.

We do understand how complex HS can be and are working on solutions. Tools like Z-Tool+ make some things much easier. That tool is being expanded.

Hope this helps!

I'll add my two cents. I think the window for HomeSeer to be purchased has closed for the foreseeable future. It seems that once HomeKit was announced, everyone got scared, and tried to preempt Apple. Hence, two-three years ago, Google buying Revolv (and closing it down), Samsung buying SmartThings, Lowes doing Iris, Staples doing Connect, Wink being around, etc.

Now . . . . Iris doesn't seem to be that important to Lowes. Connect less so to Staples. Wink is basically gone. Not sure how SmartThings is doing. HomeKit still has "potential." (And there are others, Wemo, etc., but I wouldn't hold my breath for a solution from the likes of Belkin.)

I think we're basically where we were pre-HomeKit -- you have a small number of DIY solutions -- HomeSeer, Vera, Indigo on the Mac, etc. -- and a small number of professional/contractor-installed solutions (Crestron and friends).

I think Lowes, Staples, and so on were thinking that the technology had advanced to the point where the average consumer could install and use the devices with minimal support and handholding, and I don't think home automation is there yet (and for a good chunk of the population -- a majority? -- the amount of home automation they need is limited to none). The market I see for HS, Vera, and so on, is the enthusisast market.

I think Apple is trying to make it more "average Joe," but frankly, as a huge Apple fan (new version Mac Pro, four iPads, two iPhones, and a MacBook Pro in the household), I don't think they'll succeed. Apple seems to throw a lot of crap at the fan and see what sticks ("Ping" anyone?). And lately I feel that their software offerings have decreased in quality (Music . . . post-Snow Leopard OSX).

So my view on HomeSeer is that it'll be around as long as the owners want to keep running it. Prresumably it's profitable. The enthusiast market will only grow, albeit slowly.

[TomTom]

Thanks Rich!
Designer is and will be a big part of my use, because it allows create non-generic screen with information that pertinent to my household. Am hoping there will be strong and on going support. Designer and its great features were a big part of what sold me on HS initially.

[AshaiRey]

[Many good point snipped]

To me, the automation has to always run so having the cloud do the work is unacceptable. Not only for reliability, but for security. Sooner or later someone will hack into one of those servers.

Now, this kind of information is value for me. At HomeSeer they understand not only the problems that may occure when using cloud based systems but also the dangers that come with them. For me this is the most interesting statement made by HS in the post next to the announcement of the upcoming features.