How to sell a Homeseer Home?

[Sheriff]

As my two homes have increasingly become automated, I have often wondered what one does when you sell such a home. The chance of finding a buyer who is willing to manage such a system is remote and I have no interest in becoming an HS service manager. What are others doing? Do you just take out the cpu and leave the devices? I think the system adds value, but only if service is available. Is there someone willing to provide third party service in San Antonio or Telluride Colorado?

[mikedr]

I've thought about this issue as well. The problem I have, if you will, is that certain functionality of the house requires HomeSeer -- for example, we have two outdoor fountains that are plugged into wayward located outlets, and I have a Cooper 5-scene wall controller to more easily turn them on and off. Likewise, I added a "virtual" three-way switch by installing an accessory remote switch -- without the network running, the switch won't do anything. Finally, we had a bunch of main floor outlets that were controlled by a switch hardwired, and in place of the switch I put in an accessory switch to control other things.

At our other house, the only way to control the heat lamps and the misting system is via z-wave, unless you want to go to the garage to control them!

I'm thinking what I'm going to do is replace my SEL-PRO box with a Zee2 box, without any whiz-bang automation events. I'd then leave instructions for the user name and password. Even if for some reason the new owners wouldn't hook up the box to a network, it'll still run by itself to make sure that the base functionality stays.

The HS3 system at our second house was running on autopilot for 5 months, because the Internet died (coax from our house to the main tap across the street is dead! I'm here for a few days, and the cable company is pulling permits with the city to run a new line). When I got here, everything was working just fine. I updated the system and the plug-ins (something I do not do unless I'm physically at the location where the system is, out of caution), and that's about it. Only downside to not being able to remote in these past five months is that I couldn't control the irrigation system.

We sold a house back in 2006 that I did a custom brew home automation system using a software product called Girder (which is still around), interfacing via serial port to the home theater system to control it and also to the lights via Lutron RadioRa. I wrote like a 20-page manual to how to use the system, which was an old Windows XP box from Shuttle. Thankfully, the buyer was a networking engineer (Microsoft employee), and he was excited about it. I'm curious if he's still using the system. It was really a hodge podge.

[Guest]

As my two homes have increasingly become automated, I have often wondered what one does when you sell such a home. The chance of finding a buyer who is willing to manage such a system is remote and I have no interest in becoming an HS service manager. What are others doing? Do you just take out the cpu and leave the devices? I think the system adds value, but only if service is available. Is there someone willing to provide third party service in San Antonio or Telluride Colorado?

Speaking as a Realtor, I would suggest that VERY FEW, if any people would be able to operate the homes we are creating. I have sold homes with Crestron or Control4 in them ad later discussions with the buyers indicate they occasionally use it for lighting but rarely use any other capabilities.

I would market and show the home with potential of automation, but sell the package separately if buyer interested.

And at $100 an LED dimmer, would likely take them too! Lol.

[Pete]

The selling of an automated home has been discussed a few times on Cocoontech over the last few years.

It doesn't really work even if you spend the time and document what you have done with the home.



As Jim mentions above; most Realtors today have little or no knowledge relating to an automated home.

[Rupp]

Yea, my neighbor is selling his home with a bit of automation and I advised him to take it all out and take it with him. The average Joe is not only not interested in home automation but has very little knowledge or patience to deal with it.

[TomTom]

How to sell a Homeseer Home?

This is a great question. I've been noticing this here and seeing the increasing use of ha in homes. From what I've seen here there is a price divide - many who buy expensive homes and have the disposal income just hire local ha tech company ( usually some sort audio-video company that charges bw $70-100/hr ). Increasely houses here that are over 1-2 million tend to have some sort of automation pre installed( dealer only kind). If it's older owners like my in laws they only use lighting parts and AV. Younger home owners buying these homes, 35-45 y/o, buying these homes tend to use more than just lighting( phone control, etc) but nothing like self created events,etc. Both these age groups outsource all the maintaince to the AV-HA companies. For simple updates and minor changes they pay the $100-200/visit - like to get their tv remotes reprogrammed(urc, etc). If it involves plugging in of wires, additional equipment( Sonos, Apple TV, additional TV) , or anything in their dedicated home theaters you pay even more than than.

The other side of the price divide -
There are home builders here, homes in the $450k-700k, who pre-install lil hubs with light switches and locks. The new home buyer uses it till something goes wrong( usually something minor). Then the difference within this group shows. In these homes w DIYer owners the ha will be fixed and continued to be used and/or expanded. If it isn't a DIYer owner, the switches, locks, get used manually only and their ha hub sit there like dusty bricks. They may hire these same HA-AV companies once or twice, but then don't see it to be financially prudent to keep spending on this.

Knowing this if I were selling a home with HA see where your home falls. If it's in the higher category, nothing to worry about. If it's in the lower category, strip out all complex events, and leave the basics( lights, irrigation, energy, etc). Remove all experimental stuff. And create a back up copy of the ha drive for the new home owner( in case they screw something up). Leave basic instructions as mikedr did. And link them to this site.


***Edit- this referencing southern US.

Sent from my iPhone

[Pete]

The above noted and relating to the automated vacation rental home sale, automating it for remote control would be beneficial to the investor of said home. That said though they would have to know a bit about automation.

Many times though personally relating to out of country vacation property rentals we have only dealt with an on location property manager. (we actually sort of treated the property manager as our personal concierge which worked for us).

We have a friend that purchased a custom spec home (it was a bit over a million) a few years back that had a Control 4 system installed by the contractor. She did have issues and was not a happy camper for some 2 years. Thinking she did pay the Control 4 folks to update her house to her liking. She did spend a few dollars doing this and today is a happy camper but thinking she spent much on many service calls.

Relating to DIY automation today look over to the Reddit Home Automation forum newbie questions.

Home automation is still very new and an expensive endeavour to the average homeowner. There is no ROI right now because there are no standards relating to Home Automation.

Look here on the forum at the long time Homeseer users.

I am going to guess that many Homeseer users have put in their own automated switches versus paying an electrician to do that. There is a skill level that you need to play with electricity. Most average homeowners are not DIY electricians. (nor carpenters, drywallers, plumbers, et al).

Look at the DIYer poll that Mark did a bit ago relating to Homeseer forum users.

[TeleFragger]

I am going to guess that many Homeseer users have put in their own automated switches versus paying an electrician to do that. There is a skill level that you need to play with electricity. Most average homeowners are not DIY electricians. (nor carpenters, drywallers, plumbers, et al).

Look at the DIYer poll that Mark did a bit ago relating to Homeseer forum users.

yeah I just took 3 togglelinc switches apart to click the circuit board back in from kids banging on them too hard.. hah...

but I do all my own wiring... wife forcing me to get permits lately but I still get them and get it done...

jack of all - master of none

[Sheriff]

Great discussion, thank you all. I'm still laughing about Telefractor's wife making him get permits to do his own wiring. It made my wife suggest she ought to organize a wive's support group. Don't worry guys, I won't let it happen.

[TomTom]

It made my wife suggest she ought to organize a wive's support group. Don't worry guys, I won't let it happen.

Oh, how my wife would be the first to join! I think all these wives would instantly hit it off, as they all so many HA related stories in common 8-)

This weekends discussion has been "why do you need Siri, to control the lights, you already have so many screens around, and app....."

[TeleFragger]

Great discussion, thank you all. I'm still laughing about Telefractor's wife making him get permits to do his own wiring. It made my wife suggest she ought to organize a wive's support group. Don't worry guys, I won't let it happen.

don't laugh.. part of the reason why my HA was down for 2yr+ is cuz of this story..

I know different topic... but hey.. we already discussed some will want a house HA and some wont..

7yrs ago I did the basement... no permits.. 4yrs go by and she says she wants permits.. in case we sell. I ask are we selling and she said no...
I told her to take care of it. She called and they said yes come in get permits, we inspect all good...

so I went and drew it all up in visio all nice color coded, etc..

I go in hand in papers and apply for permits...

I get a call that permits are in. I go down and get them. I then ask... So is the Eeeellleccrricalll inspector In?!?!??!?!?

He heard me and came over saying.. Hi I'm Jim can I help you. I said.. I'm here for permits for my basement. He looks at plans and says.. yes I remember these.

I then say (he is either gonna be on my side or the ahole)... I said.. yes permits for.. ummm u know a basesment already done...

he goes.. Oh.. takes my permits hands them to the girl and says... Place these on Hold.. looks at me and says... We have papers for people like you....


so there is so much more but don't want to thread jack too much...

long story is another 1.5yr I finished it... inspected and up and running. Had to take all my HS rack down and all... put it back up but it is a mess now and I need to reorganize it...


now I will just bite the bullet and get permits to not deal with her or them...

[Steve Q]

Speaking of permits, if your selling an automated home, the buyer will undoubtedly want a home inspection. Most inspectors are clueless about automation and this could become a major hassle getting a good home inspection and mortgage approval.

I agree that removal of all ha is the best strategy.

Steve Q


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[TeleFragger]

Not all the time.. our town inspector is notorious for being difficult. I lefy a x10 repeater.. an extra one out for him to see... and showed him a leviton x10 outlet in basement. Explained they do not make thrm in tamper resistant... he said.... ok..

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3

[TomTom]

I'm not an expert on home inspection, so can only speak of the two states I have homes. From the several inspection I've attended during buying/selling homes, I don't believe the home inspection would be a problem if the HA owner was present during inspection. Again this may vary by state, but here it wouldn't be a problem. The seem to be looking for the basics, and even if they don't know how to use the features, but if you can show them how, it would be ok. Say like a touch screen controlling the thermostat or outdoor lights, that may not have a physical switch. They want to see, what is being sold, actually works, not the mechanism of how it works.
All my outdoor lights, over 10 different areas including dock as far as 300 ft from house, are all controlled my touchscreen only with no physical switch. When I was first doing this I asked the local building and electrical inspector if this would be an issue for sale. They said as long as the items being installed followed existing code there would be no issue. So say for electrical if you followed the correct depth for wire burial, junction boxes, etc it would be no problem. But he also told me home inspector don't check code, unless something was glaringly alarming like a electrical junction box that was inaccessible (which off course the home inspector would have to see first as being inaccessible).
The other important thing they check is electrical outlets. If you have z-wave electrical outlet make sure the outlet plug they are checking is turned on. Even if it wasn't turned on, they would only mark it as non-functioning and give the seller the opportunity to "fix" the issue.

Home inspection is a very good point, and I believe ha owners need to present during inspections.

[Automated]

Even in modern times, our town AHJ commented during an inspection that they do not keep the permit records past a certain point. It is up to the home owner to make sure their installs are compliant, pass inspection, have permits, and etc. If you want to follow the letter of the law, you need a permit also to remove all your automation switches! Just get your permits and inspections where needed. Otherwise they can, and usually will, make an example out of you.