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X10 poll - Stay HS2 or go to HS3???

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    #16
    It will not be fair if I write here. Best to test it yourself. Just use a power strip to test.

    the proof is in the pudding

    or

    A 1682 version from Bileau's Le Lutrin reads, The proof of th' pudding's seen i' the eating.
    - Pete

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      #17
      I got a chuckle out of the title of this thread! Almost makes me want to post a competing poll...
      "HS3 poll - Stay on X10 or go to ANYTHING THAT WASN'T DESIGNED IN 1974?"
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        #18
        I have been playing with X10 devices since I first discovered them around 1980. Over these many years I've learned a lot about other devices creating noise on my wiring which kills the X10 signals. Adding the TI103 interface boosted the signal voltage which helped a lot. A few years ago I read about Jeff Volp's XTB-ANR device, which is supposed to act like noise cancelling headphones and filter out unwanted noise. I got two of those, plugged one into each phase of my house wiring, which helped a bunch more. Now I only have a few devices which kill my X10 signals. One was a 12 volt power supply which drives am LED strip on top of my kitchen cabinets. I replaced that power supply, and all is well. The next culprit is a strip of 4 LED floods in my gameroom. I was hoping to control those with an X10 wall switch, but never could get them working. I removed the X10 wall switch and replaced it with a Leviton dimmer. Those lights work just fine, but when they are on I get all kinds of X10 noise that even the XTB-ANR units won't filter out. The most recent culprit is a new Sleep Number bed. When I plug the Sleep Number box into an outlet I can no longer control X10 lights in the bedroom. So a simple X10 plug in noise filter fixed that one. These are just a few examples of what power line noise will do to kill your X10 signals. My X10 system is 99.9% rock solid with almost no HS3 problems.

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          #19
          C5 Ghost Signals

          Telefragger - I'm sure you've thought of this or already tried it, but if you are still getting that repeated C5 ghost signal I would change my X10 devices to another house code and then set both the X10 plugin and the WF800 plugin to ignore all housecode "C" signals.

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            #20
            Originally posted by prnorton View Post
            Telefragger - I'm sure you've thought of this or already tried it, but if you are still getting that repeated C5 ghost signal I would change my X10 devices to another house code and then set both the X10 plugin and the WF800 plugin to ignore all housecode "C" signals.
            No i havent....

            The only thing i have on c is [C]rawl space....

            So i have a ws467 x10 push button and a ms13a. I will change both do D and see....

            It is wireless as blades blrf plugin is tagging it....

            Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3
            HW - i5 4570T @2.9ghz runs @11w | 8gb ram | 128gb ssd OS - Win10 x64

            HS - HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435

            Plugins - BLRF 2.0.94.0 | Concord 4 3.1.13.10 | HSBuddy 3.9.605.5 | HSTouch Server 3.0.0.68 | RFXCOM 30.0.0.36 | X10 3.0.0.36 | Z-Wave 3.0.1.190

            Hardware - EdgePort/4 DB9 Serial | RFXCOM 433MHz USB Transceiver | Superbus 2000 for Concord 4 | TI103 X-10 Interface | WGL Designs W800 RF | Z-Net Z-Wave Interface

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              #21
              Originally posted by macromark View Post
              I got a chuckle out of the title of this thread! Almost makes me want to post a competing poll...
              "HS3 poll - Stay on X10 or go to ANYTHING THAT WASN'T DESIGNED IN 1974?"
              Mark,
              I realize this is a joke, but are you implying that technology design and product design are identical?

              Other technology 'designed' in the 1970s:
              • dot matrix printer
              • LCD
              • word processor
              • video game
              • Ethernet
              • Post-It Notes
              • ink-jet printer
              • MRI
              • software spreadsheet
              • cell phone

              Then there are other 'archaic' designs that seem to hang around:
              • beer
              • baseball
              • wheel
              • internal combustion engine
              • window glass
              • central heat
              • refrigerator

              Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
              HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

              HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

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                #22
                Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
                Mark,
                I realize this is a joke, but are you implying that technology design and product design are identical?
                The context to my comments are related to home automation technology only. However, if you want to quibble a bit, I can probably go through your list and cite how each item on it is significantly better now than it was in 1974... possibly even beer!
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                  #23
                  Originally posted by macromark View Post
                  I can probably go through your list and cite how each item on it is significantly better now than it was in 1974... possibly even beer!
                  Are you implying that X10 is no better than it was in 1974?
                  Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                  HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                  HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by macromark View Post
                    ... possibly even beer!
                    Ooh riad trip...


                    Fyi all.. i did the poll more to find if im chasing noise or a problem so lets try and stay focused plz. I know HST is busy but at least it is on their radar were having problems and there are others not going to hs3 due to similar issues. That impacts their business as plugins are not being purchased....

                    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3
                    HW - i5 4570T @2.9ghz runs @11w | 8gb ram | 128gb ssd OS - Win10 x64

                    HS - HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435

                    Plugins - BLRF 2.0.94.0 | Concord 4 3.1.13.10 | HSBuddy 3.9.605.5 | HSTouch Server 3.0.0.68 | RFXCOM 30.0.0.36 | X10 3.0.0.36 | Z-Wave 3.0.1.190

                    Hardware - EdgePort/4 DB9 Serial | RFXCOM 433MHz USB Transceiver | Superbus 2000 for Concord 4 | TI103 X-10 Interface | WGL Designs W800 RF | Z-Net Z-Wave Interface

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
                      Are you implying that X10 is no better than it was in 1974?
                      OK, I'll bite... how is the technology better today?
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                        #26
                        Originally posted by macromark View Post
                        OK, I'll bite... how is the technology better today?
                        I've got one. I've got one. There are less and less users using X10 so now I do not have to worry that my neighbors X10 signal will turn on my lights How's that ...
                        -Rupp
                        sigpic

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by macromark View Post
                          OK, I'll bite... how is the technology better today?
                          I have had X10 devices since the early 1980s, when they were nearly all from BSR. The remote was ultrasound, and the false signals were more frequent than real ones much of the time.

                          In the intervening years I've not only seen steady progress from suppliers like Leviton - with better quality control, noise suppression and signal extraction - but also huge leaps. Jeff Volp's devices are excellent examples. But for me, the devices that most changed my view were Lightolier's Compose. The performance is nearly flawless, and the scene control and programming were state of the art when I installed them - not just for X10, but for any technology. Up until a few years ago, UPB was the only technology that offered comparable performance for the DIYer.

                          Of course, now they are getting old, and new technology - including Z-wave - is eclipsing them, but they still work well, albeit with the annoying slow response inherent in X10. It is a foregone conclusion that I will replace them. They are no longer supported or manufactured, so as components die, I have to replace them with something else. The question is more of when than if. It doesn't make financial or time sense to replace them wholesale. I have thousands of dollars of switches, keypads, firewalls, etc. Not only is there a cash hit, but replicating the programming, let alone the physical job of replacing the dozens of devices will require considerable time and effort.

                          Unfortunately, these devices use X10 Preset Dim commands, one of the significant improvements to X10 technology introduced since it's original conception, and incomprehensibly, HS3 doesn't appear to support that protocol, even though HS2 did. So for me, it's not a simple choice of which technology to use. I've already made a commitment there. The question is, if I move to HS3, how do I continue to use my existing devices while I gradually replace them? Will the plug-in support X10 Preset Dim in the future? If so, when? If not, I need to settle on an alternative method to control my lights - or just stay with HS2.
                          Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                          HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                          HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
                            I have had X10 devices since the early 1980s,
                            Well said..

                            Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3
                            HW - i5 4570T @2.9ghz runs @11w | 8gb ram | 128gb ssd OS - Win10 x64

                            HS - HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435

                            Plugins - BLRF 2.0.94.0 | Concord 4 3.1.13.10 | HSBuddy 3.9.605.5 | HSTouch Server 3.0.0.68 | RFXCOM 30.0.0.36 | X10 3.0.0.36 | Z-Wave 3.0.1.190

                            Hardware - EdgePort/4 DB9 Serial | RFXCOM 433MHz USB Transceiver | Superbus 2000 for Concord 4 | TI103 X-10 Interface | WGL Designs W800 RF | Z-Net Z-Wave Interface

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by macromark View Post
                              I got a chuckle out of the title of this thread! Almost makes me want to post a competing poll...
                              "HS3 poll - Stay on X10 or go to ANYTHING THAT WASN'T DESIGNED IN 1974?"
                              Wow... I am absolutely dedicated to HS as a whole and think it is the best solution available for the price. It just blows my mind that someone on HS payroll would post such non-productive, childish, non-sense as a way to support a decision that was made to abandon an older technology...
                              I imagine it is quite easy to snub the older technology when you work for a company that gives you all the software and possibly even the hardware for free or deep discounts. It really goes to show where this business model has gone. I remember the day that all of us and HS themselves understood that this is purely a hobby for some and needlessly being forced to change from a technology that has served some users well would be disappointing to those customers. I personally got tired of fighting the bugs of X10 technology and bit the bullet and migrated away. The funny thing is that I have actually found myself migrating away from a centrally controlled environment due to issues I had even with the newer technologies (zwave). For example... outside lighting use to be 100% controlled by HS and should simply turn on at sunset and off at sunrise. It would drive me crazy that every once in a great while something would go off the rails and my house would be dark (zwave issues, power recovery issue, hs lock up, etc)... I finally replaced all exterior light control with good old local dawn/dusk sensing and have been much happier with the reliabilty. Don't get me wrong... I cannot live without other features of my home automation system that are fully dependant on HS.

                              I guess in short I am disappointed that a HS representative would think it is appropriate to poke the bear instead of being more respectful... or even better yet seeking to understand and then being understood. You are paid to support not make fun of those that can't afford the time or expense of changing technologies. If the simple answer from HS is that if you want full X10 support then you are better off staying on HS2... then that is a legit statement... If you want to say HS3 will unfortunately never cater to all the needs of X10 users due to the fact that the technology is being phased out... that is also legit. Thanks for listening and yes... I will be buying more products in the future, because like I said... you do offer the best solution for the money.

                              On a side note.... is HS even attempting to create plugins that would make the PRO version worth the upgrade cost... has there been a new HS developed plugin created since HS3 has rolled out? If we want to pick on people not keeping up with the current trends in automation... we should at least look inside and show examples of growth in HS developed plugins that are included with HS3 PRO that are evolving with such technology advancements or at least what the user base is interested in.
                              Last edited by megatron2; November 19, 2015, 11:15 PM. Reason: removed irrelevant banter on my part...

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by megatron2 View Post
                                I guess in short I am disappointed that a HS representative would think it is appropriate to poke the bear instead of being more respectful...
                                We've poured a tremendous amount of time, energy and money into HS3 development over the past 4 years. HS3 has been, and continues to be an all-consuming, all-hands-on-deck pursuit for us, top to bottom. So, any post that questions the wisdom of moving from HS2 to HS3 is going to sting a bit... particularly when the post focuses on legacy support for technology and products that have not seen any fresh development work for decades! So, if my "1974" post seems a little snarky, well.. that's the context for it. I don't post a lot of snarky remarks; I guess I was due. Personally, I'm down to just a few wireless X10 devices (slim switches reporting to W800 via BLRF). I have removed all my other X10 nodes and purchased Z-Wave switches and sensors as replacements.

                                Having said that, we are aware that some folks are having issues with X10 under HS3 and that some features (like preset dim) are not supported. So, if X10 truly is your mission critical technology and it worked well for you in HS2, but not in HS3, I can understand why you'd want to stay on the older program. I get it.
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