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Recap of what HST released in 2015

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  • RJS
    replied
    Originally posted by Automated View Post
    ...and added other "dynamic behavior" by always calling a script for button presses. I can then pass screen parameters, so that if I copy a screen to reuse it, all I have to do is change a few hidden text values on the new screen to tell the backend scripts I am referencing a different room or etc. This is a lot of extra work to set up, but more powerful/reusable in the end. So much could be added to HSTouch to make this kind of behavior much easier to achieve.
    I do the same thing. I would like to be able to insert a spreadsheet like table. In this table, on a screen all to itself, I would have columns and rows to clearly list all the parameters. The number of rows/columns should be definable and should have title placeholders for each row/column. Of course with the ability to copy/paste cells. The script called on another screen would reference a specific cell number on the spreadsheet sheet for each parameter required. This spreadsheet should exist as a separate sheet in the projects folder. Or maybe add the ability to import an excel spreadsheet to be used to store parameter information.

    Originally posted by Automated View Post
    It would also be great if HS would build in a mechanism on every script call from a HSTOUCH client that the script could check which client name made the call. I am able to fake this using the script parameter passing mechanisms listed above, but it is annoying to have to customize the hidden text element once for each client deployment I do.
    Good idea. I'd like this as well.

    - Robert

    Leave a comment:


  • Automated
    replied
    I absolutely need customized HSTOUCH screens, and also desperately would like updates to it in 2016. We use it for very customized room, AV remote, and etc screens. A generic interface would never cover all the use cases we have in place. At the same time, it would be so great if HS would abstract the HSTOUCH references to HS objects, so that generic screens that work for many use cases could be shared without having to rebuild them so much for each system. Then, on the HS side, one could assign various devices and events to the abstracted references. I have already faked this as much as possible and added other "dynamic behavior" by always calling a script for button presses. I can then pass screen parameters, so that if I copy a screen to reuse it, all I have to do is change a few hidden text values on the new screen to tell the backend scripts I am referencing a different room or etc. This is a lot of extra work to set up, but more powerful/reusable in the end. So much could be added to HSTouch to make this kind of behavior much easier to achieve.

    The clientaction commands and the designer need improvement.

    It would also be great if HS would build in a mechanism on every script call from a HSTOUCH client that the script could check which client name made the call. I am able to fake this using the script parameter passing mechanisms listed above, but it is annoying to have to customize the hidden text element once for each client deployment I do.

    Leave a comment:


  • waynehead99
    replied
    Originally posted by jlrichar View Post
    Wow, this thread took a dark turn somewhere. HSTouch is indeed a massive letdown. It is really designed for the era of the professional installer, and not for the current age of slick easy to use and implement interfaces. Clearly it needs to change. As an aside, what I have always found incredibly odd is the need for it. HS is already a web application. All client devices now have web browsers. Why then spend all the time and effort to develop and support special touch clients that are really just specialized web browsers? It seems like a really large amount of effort to duplicate a lot of work gone into web browsers and UI design by companies that have billion dollar dev budgets. HS is perfectly positioned to take advantage of all of that since the core app is a web application. They simply need to create a web UI for control (as opposed to the current UI that is geared toward management). IMHO HStouch needs to be wrapped up and put on dev hiatus. Then they need to simplify and come out with a real adaptive web remote control interface. And you know what, I think that is what they started this year with both the json and ascii additions. I'm irritated that HSTouch is buggy, but at the end of the day without all the bugs it will still take either an installer, or a ridiculous amount of my time to customize beyond the default templates for whatever clients I have. Also, to make matters worse, the level of effort simply does not match the turnover frequency of my HSTouch client devices. In other words, by the time I have a great project that is fully mature on any given device, along comes the next gen device and lo and behold the resolution and quite possible aspect ratio are different. OK HSTouch aside over.



    Back to the topic at hand, which is basically that I think they had a good year this year. HS (the program) has never been more stable, or capable than it is right now. Also, the current crop of 3rd party plugins are really great, and the IFTTT integration is fantastic for interfacing to lots of cloud services. Z-wave support is really excellent, and likely the best available. While I have not been using it as long as most of the posters on this thread, I have been using homeseer for quite a while. I originally purchased HS1.7, and got a free upgrade to HS2. I used HS2 for the entire life of it, and migrated to HS3 during the beta. While there is a lot more I would like to see, I think their efforts this year were spot on. I'm hopeful that they will make significant strides on the the remote control aspect soon. Let's be positive though, let's see what CES brings. I think this year was all about connecting to the cloud, solidifying z-wave supremacy, and laying the groundwork for future UI dev. So this year, we had to wait on showing off a great remote UI, at least we got amazing tools to actually automate our homes based on sensors, location, the weather, our fitness, our sleep patterns, whether the patriots are playing, or whether a John Malcovich tweeted a picture.... Next year we will get the UI.







    I hope.

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here but I don't personally see the benefit of having a web UI replace hstouch. How would I customize it to only show what I care for and in the format I want? I like the idea of a dedicated unit to control and inform me and don't see this working well without doing it in an app I can customize. Makes it look a lot cleaner and more professional.

    I use the default project on my phone just in case I need to control something remotely, but this is very rare as opening the app and finding what I need is tedious.

    I like have a touch panel in each room customized to that room. My panels are made on purpose for only one use and always on to display info. We don't really do much control from them except music, but they show different screens depending on time of day and current events happening. Not sure I could get this with a web UI easily.

    HSTouch and Designer have a home and a purpose, and with some development time out into them, they would be amazing tools.

    You can tell there is something happening as they are pushing revisions of the plugin. But no one knows what each version does or fix because there is no info. But I say this thinking hstouch isn't disappearing anytime soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • jlrichar
    replied
    Wow, this thread took a dark turn somewhere. HSTouch is indeed a massive letdown. It is really designed for the era of the professional installer, and not for the current age of slick easy to use and implement interfaces. Clearly it needs to change. As an aside, what I have always found incredibly odd is the need for it. HS is already a web application. All client devices now have web browsers. Why then spend all the time and effort to develop and support special touch clients that are really just specialized web browsers? It seems like a really large amount of effort to duplicate a lot of work gone into web browsers and UI design by companies that have billion dollar dev budgets. HS is perfectly positioned to take advantage of all of that since the core app is a web application. They simply need to create a web UI for control (as opposed to the current UI that is geared toward management). IMHO HStouch needs to be wrapped up and put on dev hiatus. Then they need to simplify and come out with a real adaptive web remote control interface. And you know what, I think that is what they started this year with both the json and ascii additions. I'm irritated that HSTouch is buggy, but at the end of the day without all the bugs it will still take either an installer, or a ridiculous amount of my time to customize beyond the default templates for whatever clients I have. Also, to make matters worse, the level of effort simply does not match the turnover frequency of my HSTouch client devices. In other words, by the time I have a great project that is fully mature on any given device, along comes the next gen device and lo and behold the resolution and quite possible aspect ratio are different. OK HSTouch aside over.

    Back to the topic at hand, which is basically that I think they had a good year this year. HS (the program) has never been more stable, or capable than it is right now. Also, the current crop of 3rd party plugins are really great, and the IFTTT integration is fantastic for interfacing to lots of cloud services. Z-wave support is really excellent, and likely the best available. While I have not been using it as long as most of the posters on this thread, I have been using homeseer for quite a while. I originally purchased HS1.7, and got a free upgrade to HS2. I used HS2 for the entire life of it, and migrated to HS3 during the beta. While there is a lot more I would like to see, I think their efforts this year were spot on. I'm hopeful that they will make significant strides on the the remote control aspect soon. Let's be positive though, let's see what CES brings. I think this year was all about connecting to the cloud, solidifying z-wave supremacy, and laying the groundwork for future UI dev. So this year, we had to wait on showing off a great remote UI, at least we got amazing tools to actually automate our homes based on sensors, location, the weather, our fitness, our sleep patterns, whether the patriots are playing, or whether a John Malcovich tweeted a picture.... Next year we will get the UI.



    I hope.

    Leave a comment:


  • Madcodger
    replied
    Originally posted by kensmith View Post
    One way that could help and I know most will shoot me down for saying this, is for the software to be sold cheaper but then you have to pay a annual licence fee for support, maintenance and upgrades
    I agree! We have moved our company to almost 100% SaaS (generally cloud) because it lets us evaluate software on an annual basis, and move if a better solution develops. Our expense mgmt software is getting the boot, as is our main file storage / sharing solution. I "upgraded" to HS3 only to have it basically sit there doing nothing for a solid year because there was so much lacking in plugin availability. I was a raving fan of HS1, felt abandoned with HS2 (never got it stable), and am now a dabbler with HS3. I use it for nonessential things, but miss the old days when I felt more connected to the company and community. As you note elsewhere in your post, a subscription model forces a company to focus on the core. I often think that this is what's now missing from HS.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrhappy
    replied
    Originally posted by waynehead99 View Post
    It's funny, I was just thinking about this earlier today. I agree that HS has done some good things and they have a great product, but that shouldn't excuse the shortcomings.

    This isn't a cheap piece of software and we have invested a lot of money into related to hardware to run it on as well as design interfaces.

    I looked at the bugzilla reports this morning, and to be honest in my job if we had that many bugs outstanding for as long as they have been (confirmed bugs), developers would start getting handed pink slips.

    It frustrates me every time i see Rich or Mark post on the forums... you know they see all, yet they choose to glance over the issues and only post about feature adds and new products. It's like the mentality of the bill collector calling you... if you don't answer the problem will go away right?

    - HSTouch and Designer need a huge overhaul and bug work done

    - The company needs to become more transparent with version releases and explain what the version fixed/changed. People blindly install these changes and then get frustrated when things break and have no info

    - There is some major bugs out there it appears related to peoples database getting corrupted... that should be priority and if HS is going to post anything on the forum it should be sorry, we are working on it.

    There is a lot of knowledge on these forums, this is the reason my post count is so low compared to others. I can find the info and appreciate the help from others. It would be in HS best interest to utilize that and become a little more transparent. You have a ton of beta testers here and people willing to work for free to help you fix bugs.

    Ok Rant over... I do like the product, but communication is always key, don't keep leaving us in the dark.
    It's a bit of a difficult one (and has come up recently) because it can be deeply frustrating to have to work around bugs and issues that have been in HSTouch/HS3 since inception (or to be told to report things and then nothing actually done when you do report them) but I don't underestimate the work involved. I don't think Rick works at HS anymore (if he has he has been quiet!) so to have such a wide project base (x-platform HSTouch, linux support, web services, hardware/firmware etc) with what appears to be scarce resources really can't be easy.

    Communication I think is getting a bit better, I did suggest the twitter development feed but it looks as if there is not much that is put on it but it is a step in the right direction. There is still little mentioned and I think the reason is that if you post that you are developing x solution then everyone will say when but when things come in the way then you have to delay and it is probably better not to announce things and then just release them when they are ready. I don't know, it's HS's train set at the end of the day and they play with it how they wish...I think everyone's frustrations are because they know how great HS could be as a produce and company.

    Leave a comment:


  • RJS
    replied
    Originally posted by waynehead99 View Post
    You will notice one annoyance on both screens same brand and version OS but icons display differently (moon in bottom right). Never figured this out.
    I have noticed that at least one of my tablets is finicky about what graphics I use. For example, for the 'sleep' button I use a pic of our cat curled up asleep. If I use that pic for one of the tablets, HSTouch crashes immediately at startup. I have to uninstall HSTouch and reinstall it, changing the button to something else.

    - Robert

    Leave a comment:


  • RJS
    replied
    Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
    I'm actually surprised that you can use the same pages across such different devices. I, too, use diverse devices, but the projects are all different because of changes in aspect ratio, screen resolution, and orientation made distortions of buttons and graphics unacceptable.

    My hat's off to you. How do you deal with that problem?
    There's some give and take. You know how time consuming it can be to design a project to make the most out of a device's screen capabilities. I have 2 10" tablets that are close enough so they share the same project. There is another 10" tablet that is mounted in the upstairs hallway which uses the same project but with elements deleted. (For example - I don't care about having a news feed in the hallway.) I bought a 10" RCA Cambio Windows tablet with keyboard for my wife. She travels a lot so her project is special because she wants everything simple and only what she absolutely needs. She doesn't want control of every light in the house or the alarm system and only a few cameras. HVAC control is very basic for her. So her project has only 2 screens.
    Then there is the main device mounted downstairs. It's a 19" Dell All in One. Since we both use it, it has to be simple to use yet fully capable. I have learned what she likes so have added a few things to make her appreciate Homeseer more. I have a button called "sleep". When pressed, it shuts off all the lights except for the stair case which it shuts off 2 minutes later, sets the alarm in "stay" mode and turns on the appropriate cameras. She uses this feature every night.
    The feature she likes the best and for which I have received many goodie points, is the front door cam interface. I have a sensor mounted above the front door. When triggered and the alarm is not set, it 'wakes up' the All-in-One, points the image element to the front door video and a script is called which pans the camera back and forth slowly. So she can she who is at the front door while sitting on the couch. Since I implemented this feature, the number of complaints regarding the amount of money I've spent on this system have dropped dramatically.

    - Robert

    Leave a comment:


  • waynehead99
    replied
    Recap of what HST released in 2015

    Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
    I'm actually surprised that you can use the same pages across such different devices. I, too, use diverse devices, but the projects are all different because of changes in aspect ratio, screen resolution, and orientation made distortions of buttons and graphics unacceptable.

    My hat's off to you. How do you deal with that problem?

    I am similar that I have a main project that I deploy to 4 different brand and screen sized units. Each ultimately have their own projects because I set the unit for the room it's in but use the master to keep the format similar.

    I do have issues sometimes with formatting even with aspect ratio set to automatic in the project options. One way I got around most of it is using Jon's data scraper to look at my weather xml and have it create the entire string that I display as one (example Outside Temperature: 80F) vs trying to have to just fill a field next to its label. I had so many issues trying to line words up on each device and found this makes things look a lot cleaner.

    Two screens of different sizes showing the same data. Most of this data processed by data scrapper before displayed. You will notice one annoyance on both screens same brand and version OS but icons display differently (moon in bottom right). Never figured this out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Uncle Michael
    replied
    Originally posted by RJS View Post
    There are reasons that I have different projects: The screen sizes and resolutions of the clients . . . The capability of each client device . . .
    I must have a dozen different clients some of which share the same projects. I think I have 7 different projects. . . . A few of the devices use a "master" project from which I remove devices before deploying to them. It takes either a good memory or a configuration document to remember exactly which project gets what.
    I'm actually surprised that you can use the same pages across such different devices. I, too, use diverse devices, but the projects are all different because of changes in aspect ratio, screen resolution, and orientation made distortions of buttons and graphics unacceptable.

    My hat's off to you. How do you deal with that problem?

    Leave a comment:


  • Stef
    replied
    Originally posted by Andy View Post
    I've been using HS since 1998 and remember a little company "Keware" with a program called Autohome (ever wonder why the HS1 log file was ah.txt?) then they started calling themselves "HomeSeer". Rich, the founder, was a one man show. We had an old bulletin/message board and when you reported a bug, Rich himself would email you a new version to try!

    I've seen many Home Automation Software Packages come and go but HS continues to move to the top of the list. Revenue is a driving factor to support growth and address concerns raised here. I, for one, will not be surprised when I read that HST has been purchased/merged with another company to support growth of the product.
    Hi Andy,

    Thank you for reminding me those early memories.

    I am an early user. Around 97-98. And like you, at that time when I was writing for a bug or a new feature, Rich would come back to me with a new version in that same day!

    That is one of the reason I have stuck with them the whole time.

    Leave a comment:


  • RJS
    replied
    Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
    Just a couple of thoughts for your consideration.
    1. Is it really necessary to have different projects that share the same pages? Is there a way to use the same project for all installations?
    2. If you have a "master" project that includes all the pages you use, you could then generate 'deploy-able' projects by deleting unwanted pages and saving under their own name before deploying them. You could then do your page updates on the master project and use it to generate updated versions of the actual projects you use just by deleting pages and doing a 'save as'.

    I realize that's not exactly what you want, but having shared pages could make version control for your projects an interesting challenge, too.
    There are reasons that I have different projects:
    1. The screen sizes and resolutions of the clients
    2. The end user (in this case "The wife") preferences and needs
    3. The purpose of each client device
    4. The capability of each client device
    5. And lastly the quirks of HSTouch.
    I must have a dozen different clients some of which share the same projects. I think I have 7 different projects. Having verbose filenames and versions numbers helps to keep them straight. A few of the devices use a "master" project from which I remove devices before deploying to them. It takes either a good memory or a configuration document to remember exactly which project gets what.
    So I fantasize (maybe that word is too strong) about having a configuration setting in each project which scans the project folder and lists each page with a check box next to each page. If you want to include the HVAC page, check the box. Change your mind? Un-check the box.

    - Robert

    Leave a comment:


  • Uncle Michael
    replied
    Originally posted by RJS View Post
    I'd like it if each page in Designer could exist as a separate object. When I update elements on that page, any project that uses that page would be updated automatically and it would just be a matter of deploying to the clients.
    Just a couple of thoughts for your consideration.
    1. Is it really necessary to have different projects that share the same pages? Is there a way to use the same project for all installations?
    2. If you have a "master" project that includes all the pages you use, you could then generate 'deploy-able' projects by deleting unwanted pages and saving under their own name before deploying them. You could then do your page updates on the master project and use it to generate updated versions of the actual projects you use just by deleting pages and doing a 'save as'.

    I realize that's not exactly what you want, but having shared pages could make version control for your projects an interesting challenge, too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Krumpy
    replied
    It's software! That is the easiest component to change! Rich does miracles once he actually gets working on something...

    Leave a comment:


  • RJS
    replied
    Originally posted by 519zwave View Post
    That is a fantastic idea Robert!!!
    Thanks but maybe I am asking for too much though. I am not a s/w guy so I don't know the level of effort.

    - Robert

    Leave a comment:

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