Thinking of a Nest - Pros and Cons ?

[Kitar]

I am interested in adding HVAC control to my HS3 system. I am the first to admit I love the retro modern styling of the Nest so that will be a significant factor in my decision. I am however hoping that it will integrate with HS as well as any ZWave stats.

I am also wondering about the Thread network and if it can it be disabled to minimize interference with the ZWave and DSC wireless devices in the house. If a Nest is a solo device does it still need Thread?

Are there any downsides to using a Nest over a Z-Wave thermostat?
Pros and cons? I'd love to hear your about experience with your device.
Anyone moved away from the Nest or to the Nest from a ZStat?

[jayman13]

All I can say is don't buy it. Ecobee is much better in my opinion. You can add other sensors for temp control and the ui is much nicer

[rmiles7721]

All I can say is don't buy it. Ecobee is much better in my opinion. You can add other sensors for temp control and the ui is much nicer

What are the differences you've found between the two, in usage. Considering one of the two myself but would like info from someone who has used both rather than just opinion.

[jayman13]

What are the differences you've found between the two, in usage. Considering one of the two myself but would like info from someone who has used both rather than just opinion.

They, by themselves have the same capabilities except the very important extra sensors as mentioned above. However, the ecobee is much easier to use, schedule, looks nicer. It also has the higher WAF which for me is a big deal. The UI is very intuitive, kinda like yeah that's where that button should be and it's there. The screen on the unit itself is more like an ipad screen whereas the nest I always found "weird" to use. With the nest, you turn the knob to navigate. They both use the cloud which has it's own inherent problems but I haven't had any issues for the most part.

[denisl]

I have 2 nests. The spud plugin does a great job integrating nest with HS3. Nest is pretty basic as far as features go. I think the Nest look great and like that retro dial operation. I don't have any experience with ecobee or any other zwave thermostat but from what I've read they are all great.

Although nest doesn't have remote sensors for temperature, I have motion sensors around the house that report temperature so I guess I could always use those sensors to trigger a HS3 event to control my nest. I don't do that today and don't have a need based on where my nests are located. I also use PHLocation to control home/away with my nest. The "auto-away" feature of nest has been pretty cool as an input for HS3. Not sure if the other thermo's have a similar feature but I use my nest away or auto-away status to turn on BLOccupied to simulate lights on/off when away.

I'm happy enough with my Nest.

[Kitar]

Remote server needed ?

Ecobee looks nice but will unlikely ever go on sale, especially here in Vancouver. It's available at Best Buy, Home Depot and Apple and that is it. On the other hand Best Buy was selling the Nest 2G for 150$C which is 100$C cheaper than the 3G. That's pretty attractive pricing.

Not liking either option if a remote server is required.

I can understand on the Ecobee the need because of weather reports, but just who's server does this connect to? The weather server or EcoBee's ? Do some of the functions of your EcoBee such as the weather report dependent on EcoBee being in business?

So the same questions apply to Nest. I read through a Nest thread here on the forum where Spud responding to a user implied that it needed to connect to a remote site.

I was hoping that I'd be able to use this in the same manner that I use the Envisalink. The EVL does not have any connection to any site other than my own and is fully operational.

I suppose remote sites can be short circuited using the hosts file but if it cripples the device you loose a good deal of value.

[Madcodger]

I have two Nests, and am very happy with them. Reliable, accurate, and unlike some others in this thread both my wife and I find the interfaces (online and physical) to be very easy to use. Spud's plugin also works perfectly. However, you cannot bypass the connection to Nest's servers, and if that bothers you, the device is of almost no value to you. It's a core part of how the device functions, and is what allows you to connect to it via any technology other than physically touching the device. To my knowledge, no direct connection is possible. It doesn't bother me, and I couldn't care less that the Nest people know when I'm home or away, or what temperature I keep my house. It's not like they have a camera on us, and I frankly don't think they're doing anything nefarious with the data. But do as you wish, and good luck with whatever you decide.

[Kitar]

I have two Nests, and am very happy with them. Reliable, accurate, and unlike some others in this thread both my wife and I find the interfaces (online and physical) to be very easy to use. Spud's plugin also works perfectly. However, you cannot bypass the connection to Nest's servers, and if that bothers you, the device is of almost no value to you. It's a core part of how the device functions, and is what allows you to connect to it via any technology other than physically touching the device. To my knowledge, no direct connection is possible. It doesn't bother me, and I couldn't care less that the Nest people know when I'm home or away, or what temperature I keep my house. It's not like they have a camera on us, and I frankly don't think they're doing anything nefarious with the data. But do as you wish, and good luck with whatever you decide.

Thank you all for your input.

Very dismayed. Why a simple thing like a thermostat would be overly complicated requiring a WAN connection for local control within my LAN. I really wanted a stat that is HS3 locally controllable so I picked up a Nest at a Boxing Day sale at a flee market price, but now I am not sure if I will install it.

Now that this is specific to Nest, I'll post in the plugin sub-forum and ask if there might be a work around.

[langenet]

The issue with me is that you are dependent on the cloud service to always be there and be the same to maintain functionality. As we all know, so called services can change at any time... can you say Weatherbug?

For myself, I want complete ownership of the technology without being dependent on any service offering from an outsider.

Just my $.02

[reidfo]

What are your goals with an automated thermostat? If you want local control and scheduling without HomeSeer, then Nest or myriad others will do the trick. I use dumb controllable thermostats (CT-100 Z-Wave in one house, and CT-50 WiFi in the other) and let HomeSeer provide the intelligence. I vastly prefer the CT-100 due to its humidity sensor, and the fact that it doesn't try to be a scheduler also. The CT-50s seem to constantly reset their internal program and are hard to control just as a "dumb" thermostat. You can pick up the CT-100 in the US on sale for less than $80. This is the way to go in my opinion, and I will probably replace the 4 CT-50's in my other house with CT-100. I just don't see spending $150-$250 on a thermostat when HomeSeer provides much better control without reliance on a cloud service.

[Madcodger]

The reason a company like Nest uses a WAN connection (cloud) is that this is part of their business model. At the most basic level, they need only to worry about their device connecting to your router and your HVAC appliance, both of which are fairly simple. When we hobbyists start messing around with our own, local connections things can go WAY off track, and supporting that becomes far more complicated.

On top of that, they may one day be able to sell aggregated (very important word there) data about how people use their HVAC equipment , or to sell other services such as utility load balancing (already being tried, as I recall). These are not secret projects, and I have no problem with them. But if you don't want that, just don't buy this type of stat. Our railing against them, though, will have little effect. I suspect there are many more Nests sold than all the "local control only" automation stats combined (for homeowners), but I have no data on that.

[Automated]

Google doesn't need to also sell my data about when I am or am not home. Nest is just another step to get sensors in your house, which they can collect data from, which further enriches their data they can sell. No thanks. If someone gave me a box of them for free, they would go right to eBay. I would never use one.

I understand their business model to see them as a service and that's fine. However, I do not trust Google with my data, and as they made it unable to work without the cloud, I am in pure principle against it. That's just me though.

[Madcodger]

Google doesn't need to also sell my data about when I am or am not home. Nest is just another step to get sensors in your house, which they can collect data from, which further enriches their data they can sell. No thanks. If someone gave me a box of them for free, they would go right to eBay. I would never use one.

I understand their business model to see them as a service and that's fine. However, I do not trust Google with my data, and as they made it unable to work without the cloud, I am in pure principle against it. That's just me though.

A-yup. And to each their own!

[Kitar]

Google doesn't need to also sell my data about when I am or am not home. Nest is just another step to get sensors in your house, which they can collect data from, which further enriches their data they can sell. No thanks. If someone gave me a box of them for free, they would go right to eBay. I would never use one.

I understand their business model to see them as a service and that's fine. However, I do not trust Google with my data, and as they made it unable to work without the cloud, I am in pure principle against it. That's just me though.

Well it might be argued that if you have the GPS enabled on your Android phone when you arrive home it should be able to figure out that "you are home" by the amount of time you are at that location.

But I do feel in principal that the IOT needs to be a bit more private and I don't want companies like big brother owning control over the things that I buy.

So I am leaning toward the install even if it is against the grain. As a techie the balance between "need to know" outweighs the "need of privacy".