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    How Do Z-Wave Controllers Interact??

    I've had my Z-Wave network up and running for a year+ now, but still don't quite understand the interworkings of everything. I've been thinking about this more, from two perspectives.

    First, I have multiple controllers. I have HS3 running on a PC with a Z-Net locally, and a Z-Net at a second home. This has freed up a Zee and a Z-Stick that seem to no longer be needed. I've also set up a network at church, and have moved from a Z-Stick to a Z-Net, though still using a Zee for now. Is there any use for the Zee(s) and Z-Sticks that are no longer doing anything, other than the suggestion to leave the Z-Stick as is for backup when converting to a Z-Net. Can the Zees or Z-Sticks be used for secondary controllers (whatever that might mean) or for backup - say when the PC goes down? Can a Z-Stick and Z-Net both be used on the network (and how)? Can the Z-Stick be used for including/excluding devices, then "copied" to HS3 or the Z-Net? I don't like having equipment sitting around that should be useful.......

    Second, I have two other controllers in my home. I have a Wink Hub and a 2GIG Alarm System. Is there any way to make these play together, at least the Z-Wave parts? I did try to add the Wink to the network, but ended up handing all the devices over to Wink, and had to delete them all off of the Wink Hub and re-add them to the Z-Stick at the time. I DO know that I can't add a device to multiple controllers (tried, failed, learned). What I'd like to be able to do, though, is make these devices aware of each other and communicate with each other. For example, there are devices on the Wink that I'd like to trigger events on the HS3, and the same for the alarm system. Right now, they are all three separate. HS3 has my home automation Z-Wave devices. Wink has non-Z-Wave devices, but it really isn't serving as a hub/bridge as intended (if it died, I'd barely notice it). The alarm system has alarm only devices, some of which are Z-Wave. Note that the Wink Hub and 2GIG alarm system both have Z-Wave capabilities, and these are what I'd like to be able to integrate.

    David

    #2
    I have the 2GIG panel. From my understanding there is no way for this device to interact with HS3 -- not even as a secondary controller or separate controller.

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      #3
      Not without a little help, at least. I have an alarm installer who also does home automation for his house. He showed me the "hidden" Z-Wave menus that can be used above and beyond just adding/deleting devices. He didn't leave me the password, but said that if I figured out what I needed to do, he'd stop by and get me into the menus. He didn't know what was possible, but the menus I saw, if I recall correctly, were things like setting up secondaries and moving devices (though I don't know which direction). What I saw at least gives me hope.

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        #4
        You can control devices with more controllers. Problems start when you want the controllers to know device state.

        And some controllers don't work proberly with primary/secondary setup.

        Regards
        Morten

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          #5
          Can I do things like send events from one controller to another?? Will polling pick up the device status changes?

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            #6
            You might be able to do it with http.

            With Z-Wave both controllers will be able to control the device but that's about it.

            Regards
            Morten

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              #7
              How would both controllers control the device? I tried, and failed, to add a device to a second controller. Wouldn't that be a necessary step?

              A more generic question.....what is a secondary controller?

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                #8
                Originally posted by david.delano View Post
                Not without a little help, at least. I have an alarm installer who also does home automation for his house. He showed me the "hidden" Z-Wave menus that can be used above and beyond just adding/deleting devices. He didn't leave me the password, but said that if I figured out what I needed to do, he'd stop by and get me into the menus. He didn't know what was possible, but the menus I saw, if I recall correctly, were things like setting up secondaries and moving devices (though I don't know which direction). What I saw at least gives me hope.
                I have the 2gig as well (waste of money and once contract is up... dumping it for a real alarm panel). I got the installer code and started poking around. I have it tied to HS, but all this does is pull in the devices so that you can control them from the 2gig panel. Personally I saw no benefit in this other than one thing... have the lights turn on if alarm sounds.

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                  #9
                  I'm happy with my 2GIG for now. I did have a sense that the 2GIG wants to take over everything else. I'd rather it was the other way around. For now, I'm satisfied with the 2GIG minding the alarm stuff. I could probably do some more sophisticated stuff with the camera - turning it off when I'm doing yard work, for example - but so far the only sticking point has been the garage door opener, which HS3 still owns.

                  Some things that could be useful.....when the front door opens, turn on the light (if it's dark outside). Currently I have a motion sensor, but it's more optimal for sensing people approaching the house. When going out from the inside, detection is spotty and I'll likely add another motion sensor on the porch.

                  I'd like to have some more sophisticated environment controls. We can often open our windows in the spring and fall. It would be good to get a message when the conditions are right for opening the windows, and if they are open, close them. This could also turn the thermostat on/off, and say, don't allow the heat/cooling to run if a window is open. The alarm system knows if the windows are open, but HS3 runs the thermostat.

                  My Wink has sensors that currently don't have anything to do. They are first generation, though, and not accurate enough to rely on for anything critical. They weren't a waste of money, as I got them cheap, and the Wink helped me learn about home automation in a more or less easy fashion. Still, if there status could be communicated to HS3, it would be worth using them.

                  Etc.....

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by david.delano View Post
                    I'm happy with my 2GIG for now. I did have a sense that the 2GIG wants to take over everything else. I'd rather it was the other way around. For now, I'm satisfied with the 2GIG minding the alarm stuff. I could probably do some more sophisticated stuff with the camera - turning it off when I'm doing yard work, for example - but so far the only sticking point has been the garage door opener, which HS3 still owns.

                    Some things that could be useful.....when the front door opens, turn on the light (if it's dark outside). Currently I have a motion sensor, but it's more optimal for sensing people approaching the house. When going out from the inside, detection is spotty and I'll likely add another motion sensor on the porch.

                    I'd like to have some more sophisticated environment controls. We can often open our windows in the spring and fall. It would be good to get a message when the conditions are right for opening the windows, and if they are open, close them. This could also turn the thermostat on/off, and say, don't allow the heat/cooling to run if a window is open. The alarm system knows if the windows are open, but HS3 runs the thermostat.

                    My Wink has sensors that currently don't have anything to do. They are first generation, though, and not accurate enough to rely on for anything critical. They weren't a waste of money, as I got them cheap, and the Wink helped me learn about home automation in a more or less easy fashion. Still, if there status could be communicated to HS3, it would be worth using them.

                    Etc.....
                    So to help spin your mind on some ideas here is how I deal with the things you are requesting:

                    the 2 gig contacts and motion sensors cannot be seen on the zwave network or communicate. To get around this I got lucky on this house and it already had wired door and window sensors. They used these and tied them to a wireless device to talk to the panel, I am using an arduino in a daisy chained fashion to utilize these sensors. That helped me for the main floor since all the windows and doors had sensors on them.

                    For the climate, I do the same thing (well sorta). I initially had a script to monitor the temp outside and tell me when conditions were right to open/close windows, but the WAF was really low (She hates when the house tells her to do something). Now since I have HSTouch panels all over the house, I can just see the temps and open the windows as needed, but I do have those sensors tied to my heater to turn the heat/AC either on/off if the windows or doors have been open for more than 2 minutes (having to rework this since I have an carrier infinity controller for the heater now and it doesn't play nice). We installed a whole house fan last spring and I am still spinning ideas in my head how to properly automate that with the windows.

                    I was the same as you about 3 years ago and didn't have any automation and just getting my feet wet. I started with 2gig, quickly realized it was really limited... then moved to vera and got really big and outgrew that. When my contract is over on this 2gig panel in April, I will be changing to DSC alarm panel and have a much more true integration.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Oh and to add about the garage door. They make tilt sensors for the garage doors you can use. Personally I have a door contact sensor on it (used some aluminum rod to make a bracket), and use this to keep the lights on in the garage in the evening and also to brighten the outside front lights (have them dimmed unless motion or door opens on the front of the house).

                      If you add devices to your 2gig panel, you won't be able to properly interact with them in HS. Your only options really are to run 2 sensors, or just have your sensors in HS.

                      The 2gig panel will really only work with light/relay type devices. I have not been able to install a zwave motion or contact sensor and it work. I suspect this is probably because they use the alarm sensors to do the same thing.

                      Comment


                        #12

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                          #13
                          mhn - I think your reply explains why I messed up with the Wink. My thinking was that I needed HS3 to RECEIVE the information from the Wink, so that it would know about the devices on the Wink. I can now see sending the HS3 info to the Wink, making it the secondary. However, that doesn't get any of the Wink info from the Wink (all non-Zwave at this point) for HS3 to use, but it might allow me to use the Wink app to somewhat control things. I'll give that some thought.

                          waynehead99 - it sounds like you and I are in the same boat! But.....my wife doesn't really know the home automation is going on, if I do it right. If something is NOT working, she will let me know about it. The window open/close alerts would come to me, likely my phone. She will open the windows "because it's nice out" not considering that it's 10 degrees colder outside! In that case, it would be nice to just shut off the heat.

                          I've kicked around adding a whole house fan. We had them when I was growing up (and sometimes the only cooling we had). But, my current house doesn't have a good place for one. However, the return is right where I would put one. What I would like is for the AC to handle that, and have a baffle that switches between inside/outside air. My AC guy doesn't really want to deal with it (you'd have to change a filter on the roof, which I'm willing to do), but it would be the optimum situation, since it could be used when no one was home (since the whole house fan needs the windows to be open).

                          Now, my other house, which is in the mountains and has no AC. I haven't figured out a good spot for a whole house fan, but it could be run during the day with at least upstairs windows open. The heater layout is a bit of a problem. One heats the main rooms of the house, the other heats the bedroom areas. But that is the master bedroom suite, which is down stairs, and the upstairs. If my wife is cold and turns up the heat, she roasts my daughter's family that occupies the upstairs! I have re-wired the bedroom thermostat so that the fan can be run (have the parts to do the other one). Towards the end of summer (this was our first summer there) I set the thermostat to recirc which randomly runs the fan. That seemed to help a lot with the upstairs. What I really need to do is put in a Z-Wave sensor upstairs and run the fan when it's cooler downstairs than up (could probably do the reverse in the winter). There is a large return in the master bedroom downstairs and the largest room upstairs, so at least in theory, I should be able to get the temperature more stabilized between the two.

                          And, I've pretty much come to the same conclusion as you - just run sensors in parallel between the 2GIG and HS3. The garage door is currently on a Linear controlled by the HS3. The 2GIG wants a MyQ, but I think I can just add the wall control unit and have both in parallel. I could do window/door sensors the same way, just adding what I really need for control to the HS3. If all you determined you could do with the 2GIG was take over the network from HS3, I don't want that. I really just want HS3 to see the state of the devices. I should add that at the moment, I have only one Z-Wave device on the 2GIG - a door lock - but it would be nice to know what state it's in. It would also be nice to know what state the 2GIG itself is in! I could do some useful things in HS3 just based on that.

                          I think my frustration comes from the fact that HS3 is very good at setting up controls for things, but doesn't have a nice interface out of the box. Wink has a nice app, but it's controls are primitive and it has no web app. The 2GIG has a nice web and app interface, but very limited controls. I should also note that my wife only uses the 2GIG app. To get her to do anything manually would mean to do it through the app.

                          Anyone one using the Zee/Z-Sticks??

                          David

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                            #14
                            That last question should be clearer.....

                            Anyone have ideas on using the now idle Zee/Z-Sticks?

                            and a better question.....

                            What happens if I run a Zee and HS3 on a PC and connect to the same Z-Net?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              If they are primary and secondary they can both control the devices. But you will have to refresh the secondary when you add new devices.

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