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  • #61
    Originally posted by Royal2000H View Post
    rjh - any chance a firmware update will support disabling the internal relay? So single press can be used just for commands without cutting power to the load?
    Common use case is commanding smart bulbs with the switches.
    +1 for this.

    Comment


    • #62
      So you don’t have a load attached? And you don’t like hearing the click? You could use our dimmer, no noise with that one.

      Originally posted by Royal2000H View Post
      rjh - any chance a firmware update will support disabling the internal relay? So single press can be used just for commands without cutting power to the load?
      Common use case is commanding smart bulbs with the switches.
      website | buy now | support | youtube

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Royal2000H View Post
        rjh - any chance a firmware update will support disabling the internal relay? So single press can be used just for commands without cutting power to the load?
        Common use case is commanding smart bulbs with the switches.
        I do this now. I just wire the line and load both to the line terminal and connect nothing to the load terminal. As Rich says, if you don't want to hear the click of the relay, use a dimmer. Nobody around here minds the click and we have several places with Hue bulbs that we want to control, but not cut the power.

        Randy Prade
        Aurora, CO
        Prades.net

        PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by rprade View Post
          I do this now. I just wire the line and load both to the line terminal and connect nothing to the load terminal. As Rich says, if you don't want to hear the click of the relay, use a dimmer. Nobody around here minds the click and we have several places with Hue bulbs that we want to control, but not cut the power.
          I guess one way the OP's suggestion might be preferable is it could provide for an air-gap switch to cut power to the devices on the circuit served by that particular switch box. Not terribly important in most scenarios, but not a bad thing either.
          -Wade

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by cc4005 View Post

            I guess one way the OP's suggestion might be preferable is it could provide for an air-gap switch to cut power to the devices on the circuit served by that particular switch box. Not terribly important in most scenarios, but not a bad thing either.
            The switches do not have air gaps and you really cannot use a dimmer on a smart bulb. If the relay (on a switch) was disabled in firmware, it no longer could be used to control the load as an air gap. This would make a firmware solution less than desirable.
            Randy Prade
            Aurora, CO
            Prades.net

            PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by rjh View Post
              So you don’t have a load attached? And you don’t like hearing the click? You could use our dimmer, no noise with that one.
              As described by rprade , I use smart bulbs so I currently wire the switch as hot (connect line to load with pigtail to the HS-WD200+'s line). Then I use my smart hub to command my smart bulbs based on the presses on the dimmer. However, it would be nice to instead be able to wire it normally and then disable the relay (still use hub to send command). Gives the alternative to go back to controlling the load without opening up the wall box or to cut power to load, for example in cases of smart bulb malfunction or when switching out bulbs (without having to cut power at the breaker).

              Inovelli implemented this in their switches/dimmers by clicking 8 times in one direction to enable/disable relay.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Royal2000H View Post
                rjh - any chance a firmware update will support disabling the internal relay? So single press can be used just for commands without cutting power to the load?
                Common use case is commanding smart bulbs with the switches.
                I agree this would also be useful. I have a use case where I have a "switched outlet" that I would like to have powered but the "switch" doesn't control a load.

                Comment


                • #68
                  You can use our WD200 and associate it with the smart bulb directly so you don't actually need the hub to control it. This way you can actually dim and bright the bulb, which you cannot do with the switch.

                  But so I am clear, you really only want to disable the relay so at some time in the future you can enable it again to control the load directly? If this is true, I think this is a real corner case and not sure many would use the feature since using the dimmer makes a lot more sense for this application.

                  Originally posted by Royal2000H View Post

                  As described by rprade , I use smart bulbs so I currently wire the switch as hot (connect line to load with pigtail to the HS-WD200+'s line). Then I use my smart hub to command my smart bulbs based on the presses on the dimmer. However, it would be nice to instead be able to wire it normally and then disable the relay (still use hub to send command). Gives the alternative to go back to controlling the load without opening up the wall box or to cut power to load, for example in cases of smart bulb malfunction or when switching out bulbs (without having to cut power at the breaker).

                  Inovelli implemented this in their switches/dimmers by clicking 8 times in one direction to enable/disable relay.
                  website | buy now | support | youtube

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I have to agree that there should be a way to programmatic disconnect the relay/dimmer from the Z-Wave system. I suggest adding a new parameter with the following settings.
                    • 0 = Normal operation (default)
                    • 1 = Load always Off
                    • 2 = Load always On
                    This would allow the switch/dimmer to fully power loads when the switch/dimmer are being use as associate devices without having the load be effected.
                    HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.500
                    Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
                    System Uptime: 9 Days 1 Hour 6 Minutes 33 Seconds | IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 421 | Number of Events: 668 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True | Event Threads: 13027

                    Enabled Plug-Ins: 3.0.0.13: AirplaySpeak | 2.0.59.0: BLBackup | 3.0.0.56: EasyTrigger | 1.3.7006.42100: LiftMaster MyQ | 3.6.1.3: mcsMQTT | 3.0.0.53: PHLocation2 | 0.0.0.45: Pushover 3P | 3.0.1.258: Z-Wave

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Timon View Post
                      I have to agree that there should be a way to programmatic disconnect the relay/dimmer from the Z-Wave system. I suggest adding a new parameter with the following settings.
                      • 0 = Normal operation (default)
                      • 1 = Load always Off
                      • 2 = Load always On
                      This would allow the switch/dimmer to fully power loads when the switch/dimmer are being use as associate devices without having the load be effected.
                      You're proposing to only disable the paddle, not z-wave control, correct?
                      -Wade

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by rjh View Post
                        You can use our WD200 and associate it with the smart bulb directly so you don't actually need the hub to control it. This way you can actually dim and bright the bulb, which you cannot do with the switch.

                        But so I am clear, you really only want to disable the relay so at some time in the future you can enable it again to control the load directly? If this is true, I think this is a real corner case and not sure many would use the feature since using the dimmer makes a lot more sense for this application.
                        My specific use case is LIFX bulbs. I don't know how I would associate it directly without a hub. The real benefit to disabling the relay is that you can wire the switch normally without wiring it hot. Wiring hot is against the code in some locales.

                        With LIFX bulbs, I would press ON on the paddle, which (through the hub) would send a command to turn on the bulbs. Or dim on the paddle to 50% (with the help of the guiding LEDs) and that would send a command (through the hub) to the bulbs, etc. All of that while sending full power to the load wire. But when I need to change a bulb, reset bulbs, turn off bulbs because my WIFI is acting up, I can actually disable the load if needed.
                        But it's not just the "some time in the future", it's the fact that this way I'm never wired in a hacky way that not only makes people very uncomfortable (judging by reddit posts, forum posts, etc) but also goes against building/electrical code in many jurisdictions. The same would be true for Hue bulbs or any number of other smart devices.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by cc4005 View Post

                          You're proposing to only disable the paddle, not z-wave control, correct?
                          I'm not Timon, but I think disable z-wave as well (if by disable "z-wave control" you mean remote control of the load). To be clear, when you hit the on paddle, the dimmer should still send a z-wave "set on" command.

                          If I turn on my LIFX lights via paddle, I have my lights on and the LEDs on the HS-WD200+ are on. If I then want to turn off the lights through an automation, my phone, etc, I could directly command the LIFX bulbs to turn off, but then the LEDs on the dimmer stay on. So I need to command the dimmer to "turn off" - but again, without cutting power to the bulbs.

                          I hadn't thought of Timon's "Load always off" setting before, but now I think that's a really good idea as well! I like that elegant solution.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Note that the WD200 dimmer (sounds like you are using the dimmer) has a pull switch on the front to disable the load, so that is already there. Since internally its a triac, there is no way to disable the load entirely from software, so no parameter could be added to this device unless we modified the hardware.

                            For the switch, you just turn it off and the load is not powered.

                            Originally posted by Royal2000H View Post

                            My specific use case is LIFX bulbs. I don't know how I would associate it directly without a hub. The real benefit to disabling the relay is that you can wire the switch normally without wiring it hot. Wiring hot is against the code in some locales.

                            With LIFX bulbs, I would press ON on the paddle, which (through the hub) would send a command to turn on the bulbs. Or dim on the paddle to 50% (with the help of the guiding LEDs) and that would send a command (through the hub) to the bulbs, etc. All of that while sending full power to the load wire. But when I need to change a bulb, reset bulbs, turn off bulbs because my WIFI is acting up, I can actually disable the load if needed.
                            But it's not just the "some time in the future", it's the fact that this way I'm never wired in a hacky way that not only makes people very uncomfortable (judging by reddit posts, forum posts, etc) but also goes against building/electrical code in many jurisdictions. The same would be true for Hue bulbs or any number of other smart devices.
                            website | buy now | support | youtube

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              After sleeping on this, I think it would be good to be able to disable the relay on the switches. That presents a problem with regard to removing power for bulb replacement, etc. It occurs to me that a really good and workable solution would be an option to assign the relay to any of the five Central Scene functions. Default operation would be on a single press of the top or bottom paddle. Being able to assign this to double press, triple press, etc. would solve any issues.

                              Another enhancement would be to disable assigning a long press to the relay. Leaving it enabled and moving relay control to another scene or none at all, would allow control of the relay via long press. Disabling it would allow us to use long presses to trigger Events without controlling the relay - something I would appreciate.

                              I believe these two enhancements would solve a number of issues going back to the game changing HS-WS100+.

                              I also would like the future switches to have 7 LEDs as the dimmers do so the notifications provided by these LED displays could be consistent throughout the house. For that matter, the fan control should have used the same format for consistency. The switch could use the bottom LED and the fan control the bottom 4.

                              This would not not work for dimmers, but would help those of us who want to use the HS switches with smart bulbs.
                              Last edited by rprade; September 28th, 2018, 05:04 PM.
                              Randy Prade
                              Aurora, CO
                              Prades.net

                              PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by rjh View Post
                                Note that the WD200 dimmer (sounds like you are using the dimmer) has a pull switch on the front to disable the load, so that is already there. Since internally its a triac, there is no way to disable the load entirely from software, so no parameter could be added to this device unless we modified the hardware.

                                For the switch, you just turn it off and the load is not powered.


                                But if I wire the load as hot (directly connect line to load in the wall box), pull switch on the switch would do nothing. Which is part of why I don't want to bypass the switch by wiring as hot.

                                I don't know the specifics of triacs, but is it not software that converts the following 4 "basic" commands to action?
                                Single press up = tell triac to power on; Single press down = tell triac to power off; long press up = tell triac to dim up; long press down = tell triac to dim down. Currently, those 4 commands control the actual power sent to the load no matter what. Any other command (double tap, etc) does not, unless you configure a double tap to also turn on/off power, etc.
                                My request is to make it so those 4 basic commands do NOT actually communicate that command to the power-controlling internals - triac in the dimmer; relay in the switch (there's only 2 basic commands in the switch). Then single press, etc, can be just another scene control, just like double tap. So when I single tap up/down, I merely send a z-wave command rather than actually affect the power to the load.

                                Then you could do something like what rprade said and make, for example, quadruple press be able to turn on/off the actual power to the bulbs when needed (user programmable, of course).

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