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  • Dimming issues with some filament style LED bulbs

    I picked up a pack of FEIT filament style bulbs. These happen to be the E12 base globe, see home depot link below but I suspect the candelabra filament style may do the same thing.

    I've used filament style before and normally they are fine but these do something weird on both the WD100 and WD200 dimmers. You can turn them on to say 20% and they do light but if you go to full brightness they start to flash and even if you bring the timing level back down to say 20% they stay at full and keep flashing. To me I'm wondering if they are somehow interacting with the dimmer or maybe I just have a bad bulb. Oh before someone asks these are marked as dimmable.

    I did put these on a two level outdoor motion detector and they seemed to work in that they would go between the low setting and the high setting and back without any flashing.

    Since these kinds of LED bulbs are commonly used in ceiling fans and chandlers so we really need to know what the root cause is. Is the problem in the bulb or is it something in the dimmers that is causing the triac to false trigger thus keeping the bulb at full brightness and flashing.

    I'm wondering if HS could consider going down to their local HomeDepot and picking up a few of the FEIT filament style and checking them out. They have the ability to do much better testing that most of us can in the field since you have test equipment that we don't.

    I believe that this is serious enough that HS should investigate this immediately. You talking about just a few dollars in bulbs to solve what may be a serious problem.

    At the very least if the bulb has a bad design they can contact FEIT and notify them of the dimming issue and maybe even offer them a WD100 and WD200 they can test with as some of the other manufactures have done.

    Here are the ones I have:
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-Ele...%3A%7B0%3A1%7D
    HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
    Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
    IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

    Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
    mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

    Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

  • #2
    Update, checked a filament style candelabra and basically got the same results. However, they do seem to work better on my old Evolve dimmers at least they full range dim but do flicker just a little bit at low levels. I was only testing one bulb so the flickering bay not be there if I have several bulbs so the load was a bit higher.

    It's been awhile since I've done work with Triac's and MosFets for dimming AC loads. Boy do I wish I had a scope right now as I could take a look to see if there are any spikes that might be triggering the Triac's on the dimmer but since I don't figuring this out is really in HS court.

    Why am I looking at the Filament style LEDs? Only because they are the only types that look good in open fixtures. I think there are some that have better electronic in the base but they tend to be much larger and the bases look ugly. If HS can solve the issue then they will be on the short list of dimmers that can handle these style LEDs bulbs.
    HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
    Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
    IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

    Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
    mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

    Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

    Comment


    • #3
      Rich or anyone else at HS, have you had a chance to look at this?

      I'm holding on ordering those just incase the current production lots can't handle them. That why we need guidance from HS ASAP!

      I'm going to try and do a video this weekend which shows what happens with these type of LED bulbs. I'll try and run the tests for both the WD100 and WD200 devices. I'll also try it with my old Evolve dimmers which I think works.

      I'm hoping that it's correctable via programming but the engineer in me thinks it may be hardware related.

      As I've said these type of LED lights are the ONLY type that looks good in open fixtures and they MUST be supported. If there is an issue with the WD100 and WD200 dimmers it needs to be corrected. I have about 10 to 15 dimmers that will need to control these types of lights.
      Last edited by Timon; November 11th, 2018, 11:50 AM.
      HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
      Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
      IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

      Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
      mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

      Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

      Comment


      • #4
        I'll be purchasing a pack of these which will go in a fixture controlled by a WD100. The description of "Warm Glow dimming offers flicker-free, silent dimming that works with more dimmer switches than any other LED on the market" sounds promising.. might be what you're looking for. I'll try to remember to update here once I receive them

        https://www.amazon.com/Philips-LED-D..._title_hi?th=1

        Comment


        • #5
          For years here utilized clear F15 / E26 base crystalline like bulbs for all of the outdoor coach lamps. I have been slowly switching over to clear LED lamps in the house as this has been my preference for any lamp in the house where you can see the bulb. Decided a couple of months ago to try these bulbs. They dim fine with my UPB switches BUT still not liking the look of the bulb outside in the coach lamps. You still see a bit of the base of the bulb which I do not like. Still want an all clear LED dimmable bulb with a crystalline look to it.

          Philips LED Dimmable F15 Soft White Light Bulb with Warm Glow Effect 500-Lumen, 2700-2200-Kelvin, 7-Watt (60-Watt Equivalent), E26 Base, Clear, 4-Pack


          Click image for larger version  Name:	LED.jpg Views:	1 Size:	51.5 KB ID:	1258786

          - Pete

          Auto mator
          Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.534 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel CPU - Mono 6.00
          Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.534 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.00

          X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation.

          Comment


          • #6
            Those have the advantage that they have more electronics which helps the dimming. The downside is they don’t look and nice in a open chandelier.

            My my point is if the OLD Evolve dimmers can handle these filament bulbs across the whole dimming range the newer WD200 should as well.

            Putting my Engineer hat on, if I had read my first post I would have picked up some of the bulbs from HomeDepot on my way home and test them the next morning. If that confirmed the problem I would have posted that we’re looking at the issue. What bugs me the most is silence.

            As as I said before I wish I had access to a scope so I could see what’s going on😒
            HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
            Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
            IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

            Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
            mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

            Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

            Comment


            • #7
              For a coach lamp those F15 look fine but I don’t like them in chandlers because as you said the base distracts.
              HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
              Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
              IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

              Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
              mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

              Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

              Comment


              • #8
                Here have had good luck with the Amazon Tenergy LED dimmable candlabra bulbs (been purchasing 6 packs).

                Warm White Soft White (2700K) E12 Base Decorative B11/C37 Filament Candle Bulbs for Chandelier/Ceiling Fan


                and the

                LVWIT G14 Dimmable LED Globe Bulb E12 Candelabra Base,3000K Soft White 4W(40W Incandescent Equivalent) LED Filament Bulb, 6-Pack

                and the

                Feit Electric - Decorative Clear Glass Filament LED Dimmable 60W Equivalent Soft White (2700K) Classic A15 Light Bulb, Pack of 2 (BPA1560/827/LED/2)

                Here put candles in the windows for Christmas. I have tested different clear LED lamps every year now for the last few years and still have not found anything I like. I also tried the battery operated candlesticks and like the light better than the 120VAC candle sticks.


                - Pete

                Auto mator
                Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.534 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel CPU - Mono 6.00
                Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.534 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.00

                X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Pete, are you using those with the WD200?
                  HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
                  Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
                  IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

                  Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
                  mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

                  Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It is understood that the OP relates to the ZWave WD200.

                    These are just LED lamps that I am automating and they work fine with UPB switches (SA, HAI, PCS).

                    Just UPB in wall switches (single load, dual load, single paddle and multiple paddle switches).
                    - Pete

                    Auto mator
                    Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.534 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel CPU - Mono 6.00
                    Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.534 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro - Mono 6.00

                    X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ok, still have one test to run but I have to either move a dimmer to do it or go down and buy a filament style bulb that the same as the one I have but in an Edison base. Seems that of my 5 WD200 dimmers only one is connected to a fixture that has candelabra sockets.

                      What I am reporting is that I don't have the flickering issue with the WD100 dimmers. They will ramp up and down without any major issues. They will flicker slightly at extremely low levels but the flicker is more like a candle flame that flashing.

                      So is there something different between the WD100 and WD200 dimming circuits or do I have a bad WD200? Time will tell.

                      -----------------------

                      Looks like I spoke too soon. Put two 40W (3.8w actual draw) LED Filament style bulbs in my kitchen ceiling fan which is fed by a WD100. These were the same bulbs I tested on another WD100 in the dinning room chandelier. They will dim up and down as long as you don't go to full on. Once you get above some around 90%+ they will lock into full bright until they go to zero.

                      I've now reported this to Tech Support so this can be official. I hope that HS start communicating with us on this issue through the forum.
                      HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
                      Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
                      IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

                      Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
                      mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

                      Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I ended up purchasing a Filament style led bulb that was shorter and more rounded than the philips. The bulbs are used in two identical ceiling fan light kits each with it's own WD100. ramping up and down is smooth, slight hum when dimmed. good range; my rough assessment is they hit full on at about 80%, no flicker at any part of the dimming curve. The only odd behavior I noticed is that one of the WD100's flashes, then dims up normally. This behavior wasn't evident when using incandescent bulbs in the fixture; I suspect it's the WD100. I mitigated the effect by setting the ramp rate to 1 instead of the default 3. I'll likely swap out the oddly behaving WD100 at some point in the future.

                        LVWIT G14 Dimmable LED Globe Bulb E12 Candelabra Base,3000K Soft White 4W(40W Incandescent Equivalent) LED Filament Bulb, 6-Pack

                        sorry; for some reason if I try to link to the product page it refuses to work

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I did receive an answer back from HS support. Basically it's live with it engineering can figure out how to fix it. Ok, I understand that but to me this should be the highest on the list of things to fix. I really don't want to see anything else on the WD200 dimmers until this issue is fixed and we know when we'll be able to get the upgraded WD200 dimmers. BTW, I suggested they mark them as WD201 so we know the difference.

                          I've been checking HomeDepot web site and I can tell you the majority of the LED bulbs are now the filament style and most of the least expensive dimmers can dim them even those that don't have a neutral connection.

                          So the two things that HS needs to work on is:
                          • See if there is a work around which will allow the bulbs to work with the existing dimmers.
                          • Upgrade the WD200 dimmers so it will work with them directly.
                          I can, as I think most of us can, live with the existing WD200 as long as we're not using filament bulbs in fixtures where we can't see the bulbs. In my case that means I can't use them for any of my sconces or chandlers.
                          HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
                          Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
                          IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

                          Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
                          mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

                          Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I upgraded all my Leviton Vizia RF+ zwave dimmers to the HomeSeer WD200+ and have run into many more compatibility issues that with the older Leviton dimmers. I was expecting some but not as bad. In several ceiling fans I removed the standard light kit and replaced it with a 2200 lumen retrofit kit which works perfectly with the WD200. However, in 3 other ceiling fans I have 9 bulbs and cannot perform the same retrofit. This is mostly where I am still having issues... I suspect that the silly current limiters imposed by law to ensure people do not exceed a certain wattage may be to blame. I've read elsewhere of similar blinking issues... one telltale sign might be whether the light bulbs all blink in unison or at random. The current protection has a relay so they would all blink together if it has anything to do with it.

                            @Timor - I have had terrible luck with the Home Depot filament style bulbs. I try to avoid them but unfortunately it appears the manufacturers are moving to that style as it costs less and it appeases all those looking for bulbs that look like the traditional filament bulbs. I've also read and experienced directly that the Philips Warm Glow bulbs work great with the WD200 but I am not a fan of the color temperature warming up the dimmer I go... it is nice in certain rooms, but not all. I have also found some Osram bulbs (not filament) that work great but I am not sure they are still easy to find. They look like this one (the bulb not the packaging):



                            My latest issue with the WD200 controlling a ceiling fan with 9 ecoSmart bulbs is that no matter what percentage I set, they appear to be on at 100%. If this turns out to be a failed WD200, it would be my 3rd failed dimmer in a few months. I hope these issues are not due to WD200 hardware issues as I recently installed a total of 42 HomeSeer dimmers/switches (most of which are dimmers) in my home. Track record is not encouraging... 2 WD200, 1 WS200, 1 FC200 all failed within a couple months of use.

                            Timon - I do have a cheap Rigol 100MHz scope but I am far from an expert user... if you can tell me what to do, I could try doing so.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              aruffell - Monitoring the AC line is tricky to do safely. Best way is to have a isolation transformer which most people don't have.

                              As I've said I know that it can be done since my old Evolve dimmers can handle them. I'd be willing to send one of my old one to HS for dissection.

                              These filament bulbs can't be ignored anymore. I just wish that HS would keep us informed about these. I'm holding a 20 dimmer order until I hear what's happening.

                              BTW, I've done some testing with ones that Pete has used that I just received from Amazon. On the WD100 they have a little shimmer at low dimming levels which make them kinds look like a candle flicker. Run the brightness up a little and that goes away. I need to test them on a WD200 next. Once I test them with the WD200 I'll post back.
                              HomeSeer Version: HS3 Standard Edition 3.0.0.531 | Mono JIT compiler version 5.20.1.19 (tarball Thu Apr 11 09:02:17 UTC 2019)
                              Linux version: Linux auto 4.15.0-48-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 3 08:28:49 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
                              IP Address: 10.0.2.16 | Number of Devices: 417 | Number of Events: 667 | Available Threads: 399 | HSTouch Enabled: True

                              Enabled Plug-Ins: AirplaySpeak: 3.0.0.13 | BLBackup: 2.0.61.0 | EasyTrigger: 3.0.0.65 | LiftMaster MyQ: 1.3.7006.42100
                              mcsMQTT: 4.0.2.2 | PHLocation2: 3.0.0.53 | Pushover 3P: 0.0.0.45 | Z-Wave: 3.0.1.262

                              Z-Net version: 1.0.23 using a HomeSeer SmartStick+: 6.04 (ZDK 6.81.3)

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