No announcement yet.

LED Retrofit Dimming Performance

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • LED Retrofit Dimming Performance

    Hi Guys,

    First post, bear with me!

    I purchased several HS-WD200+ dimmers because I love the multitude of scene control options. I recently installed a multitude of Halo LED recessed cans, and the selection of LED modules (also called LED retrofits) is very limited. I've tried a few different brands, and the dimming performance is frustrating. Most models I've tried achieve max dim at ~70%, and cannot drive below 10-15% without substantial flicker (with FW 5.13 low dim option).

    I'm looking to try out the modular ML56 system (Halo / Cooper Lighting by Eaton). Anyone tried this system? It's quite expensive, but if the dim performance is solid (good driver), then it might be worth the hefty investment.

    Anyone have experience with any other LED Retrofit lights on HomeSeer dimmers?

    At this point, I kind of wish I had stuck with standard Edison style cans to get more bulb options...

  • #2
    I just finished a renovation in which I moved to permanent LEDs for primary lighting (as opposed to smart bulbs, e.g. Hue).

    The only pure retrofit I looked at was the Philips WarmGlow (mfg pn 801035). The fixture dimmed well enough with the WD200, was stable throughout the dimming curve, and dims to warm. It didn't drop out or pop on, but there was some pretty significant dead travel at the lower end of dimming. I didn't see any flicker or strobing at any power setting. However, the light output was relatively anemic and I didn't like the aesthetics.

    I ended up choosing
    the Eaton Portfolio LD2B because it met all of my needs, one of which was it worked well with the WD200. It's performance with respect to dimming light output is close to an incandescent bulb's, although there is more dead travel at the top of the dimming curve. I've noted no other dimming-related problems.

    Portfolio is not a retrofit per se, but 4 and 6 inch old work variants are available . It uses the DuoDim LED driver that supports TRIAC and 0-10V dimming. If the ML56 also uses DuoDim drivers, you might expect performance similar to that provided by Portfolio.



    • #3
      Hi Cliff,

      Thanks for the reply! I ordered 4 of the Phillips WarmGlow that you suggested. I'm also going to order the ML56 series and give them a shot too. I'm surprised to see that Eaton with ML56 system appears to be the only offering of an integral LED downlight that offers interchangeable trims/baffles. Most manufacturers have the light and trim molded together (not very aesthetically pleasing IMO). I'm hoping manufacturers begin investing more in this space as Californians move off Edison style fixtures in new construction and renovations for Title 24 compliance (light power density).


      • #4
        I have had success with the Philips Warm Glow BR30 and BR40 bulbs on HS-WD100+ (which has likely exact same TRIAC dimmer hardware as HS-WD200+). For actual retrofit downlight and eyeball units the Juno G4 series (J6RL and J6RLE) work well. Frustratingly the Juno Warm Dim is 3000k -> 1800k whereas the Philips are 2700k -> 2200k so you cannot mix them in the same room, or really even adjacent rooms.

        Ultimately dimming LEDs powered by AC is a crap shoot, you need a lot of electronics to handle the AC -> DC conversion, and then to properly PWM the LEDs and still work with a lot of the wave cut out.


        • #5
          We are remodeling our kitchen. The contractor installed <brand unknown> under cabinet, direct wire, LED fixtures. I had him install a HS-WD100+ dimmer I had. Dimming performance was terrible. Light would start flickering and strobing at about 70% dimming setting, and turn off completely at about 30% dimming setting. I was about to reject the light fixtures and was looking for an alternative when the contractor suggested trying a different switch. He installed a Lutron Maestro dimmer. Dimming performance is perfect: bottom of the dimming curve presents a soft, night-llight, and no flicker through the dimming settings. But, no control from Homeseer.

          I'm thinking of ordering a Lutron Caseta switch to see if its dimming is the same as the Maestro. If so then I guess I have to buy a Lutron Smartbridge Pro and get the plugin to talk to it.

          Any other suggestions?


          • #6
            I have feit electric led retrofits in all of my cans and all work well with the wd100's I have.


            • #7
              The Caseta dimming is identical to the maestro, an excellent product for more finicky LEDs have have a large led ceiling decorative fixture, and this was the only dimmer that could handle the load and dim,appropriately.


              • #8
                Ordered the Caseta, installed it in place of the Maestro. It flickers badly. So pulled it out and put the Maestro back in.


                • #9
                  Did you calibrate(trim) the Caseta dimmer to the LED?

                  HS3 SEL running Pro Edition on Ubuntu 18.04, mono 5.20, 656 devices, 209 events.
                  Plug-Ins: Chromecast, Device History, EasyTrigger, Ecobee, JowiHue, LutronCaseta, MeiUnifi, PHLocation2, Pushover 3P, SDJ-Health, Sonos, WeatherFlow, weatherXML
                  Scripts: SparkMan's Lock Event, 5 of Jon00 scripts.


                  • #10
                    Contractor did the install while I was out of town, so probably not. I will try that. Thanks for the lead.


                    • #11
                      Yeah feels odd that it didn't work. I am going to assume the Maestro that was installed was the standard 2 wire (no neutral) and that the Caseta is also the standard 2 wire.
                      If the Maestro is a 3 wire and that is what works, than you will need the Caseta Pro line... of which I know nothing other than they require a neutral.

                      For me I have had no problems with the Caseta on even my tricky chandelier that hated every other dimmer I put in there. Only the Maestro and Caseta worked. You do need to trim the Caseta (just like the Maestro) for top and bottom brighteness levels.


                      • #12
                        Both the Maestro and the Caseta are the "no neutral' variety.

                        I reinstalled the Caseta today. It not only flickers when dimmed down low, it flashes like a strobe (randomly timed) at all settings from low to high. I looked at Lutron's site at the list of "approved" lights and mine are not there. So it is either give up on automating this light circuit or replace the six under cabinet light fixtures.


                        • #13
                          I had the exact same symptoms with my porch LED. Did the trim procedure until it would not flicker and now it works fine with no flickering. It did take me two or three tries to get the low end set correctly. My LED was also not on the list
                          HS3 SEL running Pro Edition on Ubuntu 18.04, mono 5.20, 656 devices, 209 events.
                          Plug-Ins: Chromecast, Device History, EasyTrigger, Ecobee, JowiHue, LutronCaseta, MeiUnifi, PHLocation2, Pushover 3P, SDJ-Health, Sonos, WeatherFlow, weatherXML
                          Scripts: SparkMan's Lock Event, 5 of Jon00 scripts.