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HS-WD200 / HS-WS200 Z-Wave Scene Response?

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  • HS-WD200 / HS-WS200 Z-Wave Scene Response?

    I have a few questions before I consider a large number of HS-WD200 switches. I really like the LED feedback for other parts of my system (security, locks, lights, etc). Also, I prefer the solid feel of the HS-WD200 switches over the flimy/loose feel of the Lutron Maestro/Caseta dimmers and keypads, but it's not clear to me if they can support my desire to have a super solid lowish-latency (300-500ms) and configurable user experience.

    1. Can you configure the dimmers and switches to have a Z-Wave scene response that does not require a Hub?
    Z-Wave allows devices to receive a 'scene' command that can be locally configurable on Z-Wave devices. For example, I double-tap up on Switch#1, which triggers a Z-Wave scene, this message gets sent to all Z-Wave devices on the network, and gets picked up by Switch#2 and Switch#3 which react by changing their dimming loads to a internally configured dimming level. No hub is involved, and the response is near-instantaneous.

    From what I can understand, if you use a HomeSeer hub (or other Hub) to handle scenes, the response time of the associated lighting loads is pretty poor (multiple seconds), leading to a pretty poor user experience (hacky + cheap-feeling).

    2. If this is not possible with the HS-WD200, what is the limitation for this feature? Is there some sort of hardware limitation? Or is it purely that the firmware code doesn't support it (i.e. additional Z-Wave configurable parameters + code to respond to the Z-Wave 'scene' commands)?

    3. Also, can I trigger a scene from a single-tap up/down on a Switch? I'd like a SINGLE tap on one of my dimmer switches to set multiple lighting loads throughout the house to a preconfigured level. (i.e. 25% on kitchen can lights, 50% on pendant lights, 25% on living room can lights, 50% on lamps).

    4. Can I configure the HS-WD200 load's dimming level when turned on locally? If not, what dimming level does it turn on to when 'up' is tapped?

  • #2
    See the help file here:

    https://help.homeseer.com/help/Z-Wave/static/#.scenes

    Of note:

    Deploying a scene uses the Scene Actuator Command Class, this class is required in the device to program the scene and is used to associate the scene ID with the desired control function. If the device does not support this class it may still be added to the scene, but HomeSeer will send the required commands directly to the device when the scene is activated.
    The HS-WD200 does support the Scene Actuator command class according to the node information on my system:

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    What I'm not sure on, is triggering the scene directly from a WD200. I've looked at the Z-Wave settings section of one of mine and it does not look like what the guide depicts for a scene controller.

    So, possibly what you've got is:

    Press a button on a WD200 -> Sends a Central Scene command to HomeSeer.

    HomeSeer responds with a programmed event, triggering the scene number.

    The scene number is sent across the Z-Wave network and programmed actuators responds as one, as opposed to a series of individual z-wave commands which might cause more congestion.


    But, I have some events in my system that shut off multiple lights at once. The response is fast and there's no noticeable difference in the individual response time of the different lights. You will probably find that programming with events is just easier and more flexible.

    Can I ask if you own any HS-WD200s and a z-wave network already? The desired latency of 500ms or under that you mention is certainly possible, even with a central scene controller, provided the z-wave network is large enough with enough repeaters. I used to have some lag with my first WD200 when I only had 3-4 nodes, but as the network grew that went away.

    I have a Wi-Fi networked switch as well, a SonOff basic, and it definitely suffers from the sort of latency you're worried about. The z-wave devices though, much faster.

    I'm no expert, but I think z-wave scenes are sort of being phased out in favor of the central scene command class, which does rely on a central controller. You have Association Groups available as a sort of replacement, where one device can be directly controlled from another but it's a bit limited in customization, the devices must support the same command class, must support association groups, and will simply mirror their settings.

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    • #3
      I have a large installation of WD-200 switches. They respond quite fast. I use the global on/off z-wave command and then individually switch each switch so that the hub has the status of each switch. I have yet to have a failure from a command sent. Also I always optimize my network after any and all changes.

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      • #4
        I don’t have any switches or hub yet, but read numerous posts where people reported pretty slow response times for the way I want the system to behave (more than one second).

        Originally posted by silverton38 View Post
        I have a large installation of WD-200 switches. They respond quite fast. I use the global on/off z-wave command and then individually switch each switch so that the hub has the status of each switch. I have yet to have a failure from a command sent. Also I always optimize my network after any and all changes.
        How fast? How many switches? How do you have your control switch set up with hub and hub set up to control the other switches? I’m not sure I’ve read about zwave on/off global commands, since, in some cases, I only want 6 or so switches responding out of the 30 or so.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lindahl View Post
          ...
          4. Can I configure the HS-WD200 load's dimming level when turned on locally? If not, what dimming level does it turn on to when 'up' is tapped?
          The default behavior of the HS-WD's is to go to the last level when 'up' is tapped. They turn off when 'down' is tapped.

          I have 39 zwave devices using a znet and HS3. I use an event that triggers a script when 'up' is manually tapped. The script evaluates the value of the dimmer; is it off or set to a dimmed value. Also the script takes into account a virtual device set to day/night. If daytime The light is set to on. If night and off it dims to 30%. If night and already dimmed it goes to on. The response is fast enough that the experience is seamless.

          I do have some events that activate additional dimmers/switches when one is manually activated; my master bedroom has two identical ceiling fixtures each with their own dimmer. I use an event that when one light is turned on/off the other is also turned on/off; in that case there is a noticeable lag where you can tell which dimmer was activated first. I'd estimate the lag for that event at around a second or less.

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          • #6
            Thanks Jmaddox - that helps a lot. That's unfortunate about the lag between the two lights. It sounds like the dimmers aren't suitable for my main floor's open kitchen + living room + dining room space.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lindahl View Post
              Thanks Jmaddox - that helps a lot. That's unfortunate about the lag between the two lights. It sounds like the dimmers aren't suitable for my main floor's open kitchen + living room + dining room space.
              My dimmers are WD100's. The WD200's can associate with each other which is faster than going through HS. Their video seems fairly responsive

               

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              • #8
                Originally posted by jmaddox View Post

                My dimmers are WD100's. The WD200's can associate with each other which is faster than going through HS. Their video seems fairly responsive
                Interesting, so, in effect, that just causes all the lighting loads to be synchronized? But does NOT allow for different lighting levels for each of the different loads per the scenario I initially described (i.e. 25% on kitchen can lights, 50% on pendant lights, 25% on living room can lights, 50% on lamps)?

                But, if I take a hint from your previous post:
                "Also the script takes into account a virtual device set to day/night. If daytime The light is set to on. If night and off it dims to 30%. If night and already dimmed it goes to on. The response is fast enough that the experience is seamless."

                I might be able to link all the dimmers as companions, and then execute a script when 'single-tap-up', (i.e. your technique) to set the various lighting loads to alternative and differing levels, just like you did for your day/night script? And the response would likely be fast enough that the experience would be seamless? In other words, if the lights were off, they'd all start turning on at the same time (immediately), but the script could cause them to stop at different levels (the script would override the level that each load *would have be set to*, to the differing script-customized level instead).

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